Color genetics thread.

[CanuckBock]

This is a great idea for a thread!

I have always wondered, what is the difference between jubilee, speckled (as in speckled sussux for example) and red porcelain genetics wise? They all look the same to me. Are they basically the same colorings, just different names?

Jubilee is based on dominant white (take a Dark Cornish and by adding one I or sometimes, in theory at least, by adding two blue dilutions as in Splash) and genetically called Double Laced Dominant White. There should be no real black present since dom white (no colour in double dose) and splash (diluter of black) would be expected to somewhat eliminate its expression in the plumage.

Europeans label Porcelain as Mille Fleur and the US, UK, and Australia, they call this variety Isabel Mille Fleur ...Speckled as in Sussex is Red Mille Fleur.

Please provide photos of the real birds you say "all look the same to" you in Jubilee, Speckled, and Red Porcelain if you are serious about having your query answered. Every country, every person, every breed, and every poultry community defines the colour genetics differently by using hobby names. A photo of a day-old chick in dry down and a few photos of adult (side profiles work well if only one is possible) in question would then clarify how you see them as the same.

For me, a decent Jubilee looks absolutely nothing like MDF...ever...and an Isabel Red Mille Fleur should be a lighter version of MDF (lav/lav added) whilst just a Red Mille Fleur (found in
Tricoloured Wyandotte, Spangled OEG, and Speckled Sussex are all based on different e-series plus other mutations...complex formulas which may or may not include Co, Db, Ml, and Pg) would be a much darker version of the usual MDF because of the mutations of recessive blacks and Mahogany added to the recipe.

Doggone & Chicken UP!

Tara Lee Higgins
Higgins Rat Ranch Conservation Farm, Alberta, Canada

 

[mymilliefleur]

Jubilee is based on dominant white (take a Dark Cornish and by adding one I or sometimes, in theory at least, by adding two blue dilutions as in Splash) and genetically called Double Laced Dominant White. There should be no real black present since dom white (no colour in double dose) and splash (diluter of black) would be expected to somewhat eliminate its expression in the plumage.

Europeans label Porcelain as Mille Fleur and the US, UK, and Australia, they call this variety Isabel Mille Fleur ...Speckled as in Sussex is Red Mille Fleur.

Please provide photos of the real birds you say "all look the same to" you in Jubilee, Speckled, and Red Porcelain if you are serious about having your query answered. Every country, every person, every breed, and every poultry community defines the colour genetics differently by using hobby names. A photo of a day-old chick in dry down and a few photos of adult (side profiles work well if only one is possible) in question would then clarify how you see them as the same.

For me, a decent Jubilee looks absolutely nothing like MDF...ever...and an Isabel Red Mille Fleur should be a lighter version of MDF (lav/lav added) whilst just a Red Mille Fleur (found in
Tricoloured Wyandotte, Spangled OEG, and Speckled Sussex are all based on different e-series plus other mutations...complex formulas which may or may not include Co, Db, Ml, and Pg) would be a much darker version of the usual MDF because of the mutations of recessive blacks and Mahogany added to the recipe.

Doggone & Chicken UP!

Tara Lee Higgins
Higgins Rat Ranch Conservation Farm, Alberta, Canada

Thank you. (though most of that went right over my head

) I don't own any of those colorings (though I do have a hatchery SS) I have seen photos of them over the internet, they may not have been of pure stock though.

 

[CanuckBock]

Thank you. (though most of that went right over my head

) I don't own any of those colorings (though I do have a hatchery SS) I have seen photos of them over the internet, they may not have been of pure stock though.

You are most welcome.

What you will find is it is all in the finer details.

Best investment is to get a copy of the relevant Standard of Perfection (SOP) and study what the colour varieties are suppose to look like. The American Bantam Association (ABA) lists "Mille Fleur," "Speckled," and "Jubilee" as recognized colour varieties. There is no "Tri-coloured" term for any varieties but there well could be listed under some other "hobby" name I am not so much aware of.

they may not have been of pure stock though.

For the record, there is no such thing as "pure stock" in poultry. We do not register the progeny with associations that keep stud books, registered ancestors, purebred records, and such. We have no pedigree police like there is with registered purebred canines, ovines, bovines, equines, etc. Unless you figure you need to use the Livestock Conservancy's title of "heritage" on your birds, eh.

There is a certain freedom (I come from breeding purebred registered dogs) to exercise the right to cross whatever you like in poultry which assists in keeping some very nice healthy genetic diversity in the lines...the clinchers are when you go to enter the "specimen" under the confines of a list of set of rules that state what a breed shape is and describes what a variety colour pattern is suppose to be.


If it walks and looks like a duck, enter it at a sanctioned show and see if the sanctioned judge agrees; they will disqualify it if it does not suit the worded descriptions...

​

The pedigree of the said "duck" could be a giraffe with a monkey but if it goes "quack" (especially important historically speaking with the Calls which were originally bred to "call out" to the wild ducks to bring them in to be harvested...affectionately refer to as "Quack Ducks") and suits the SOP worded description for breed and you entered it under the correct variety, age, weight, and gender...should be good.

Any breed (usually shape) may be any variety (usually feather colour pattern) .​

Some varieties are not recognized (breeds too!), just as many breeds in said varieties are not recognized officially either. There ARE sections at shows to enter poultry exhibits of unrecognized breeds and varieties. That is how the breeds and varieties work at becoming recognized as official ones, eh.

"Waz that...the sky is fallin'?"

​

I am partial to those dotty dot birds too...

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Enjoy them thousands of flowers, eh...

​

Doggone & Chicken UP!

Tara Lee Higgins
Higgins Rat Ranch Conservation Farm, Alberta, Canada

 

[Kev]

Jubilee is based on dominant white (take a Dark Cornish and by adding one I or sometimes, in

Please provide photos of the real birds you say "all look the same to" you in Jubilee,

For me, a decent Jubilee looks absolutely nothing like MDF...

http://www.orpingtonbantams.co.uk/jub.htm

lol

edited to add I get what you said. Just thought you came down a little too hard- the confusion was very understandable.....

 

[CanuckBock]

http://www.orpingtonbantams.co.uk/jub.htm

lol

edited to add I get what you said. Just thought you came down a little too hard- the confusion was very understandable.....

Eeeeeeeeeeeekk...Icrumba...that ain't NO Jubilee...

But then again, maybe that is in the British SOP's...I have no copy of those here.

To me...this is Jubilee...

​

​

All gorgeous Indian Games (I believe we refer to these as "Cornish" here inNA ).​

Well, OK to me anyway!

So how in the world did one EVER get to add black to the mix and make a two coloured variety into a TRI parti colour??

Doggone & Chicken UP!

Tara Lee Higgins
Higgins Rat Ranch Conservation Farm, Alberta, Canada

 

[Kev]

Yeah I know I know......had the same feeling first time seeing Jubilee orps! the naming in poultry hobby is a mess for sure!

Another perfect example- Indian Game vs Cornish(yep we call 'em that here) Pekin vs Cochin.....

 

[CanuckBock]

http://www.orpingtonbantams.co.uk/jub.htm

lol

edited to add I get what you said. Just thought you came down a little too hard- the confusion was very understandable.....

OK, still recovering, eh but had another look at your examples...those look Jazzy/Tollbunt (black laced mottled, mottled gold laced - compared to MDF, it has NO Db or Mh and based on ER) to me, not so much MDF. Tollbunt is just a messy formation of the MDF pattern basically.


Would these "Spangled" Cornish/Indian Game off feathersite work for some people's terms of Jubilee??

​

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Still shaking my head over the label of "Jubilee"...what a HOOT!

Doggone & Chicken UP!

Tara Lee Higgins
Higgins Rat Ranch Conservation Farm, Alberta, Canada

 

[Angie16hearts]

Yeah, if you get both pea and single comb chicks and want only blue/green eggs, get rid of the single comb chicks right away.

I have one of course my favorite who has a comb already. Small of course, single comes grow fast?

 

[Kev]

OK, still recovering, eh but had another look at your examples...those look Jazzy/Tollbunt (black laced mottled, mottled gold laced - compared to MDF, it has NO Db or Mh and based on ER) to me, not so much MDF. Tollbunt is just a messy formation of the MDF pattern basically.

Would these "Spangled" Cornish/Indian Game off feathersite work for some people's terms of Jubilee??

​

Still shaking my head over the label of "Jubilee"...what a HOOT!

Haha I was just wondering if someone created a "speckled" cornish.. what would they call it? How about a dark laced orp with I added?

Those patterns in general are not my thing so haven't really read up on their genetics. It IS a hoot from what I've seen though! btw- my similar peeve is how the name Crele gets abused- you mentioned Tolbunts, that reminded me of how it really chaps me to see "Crele Polish"- barring on either gold lace or just randomly bred/poorly patterned birds. No.. just no....... lol

 

[SallyC94]

Does anyone know what color the jubilee x red would make??