Color genetics thread.

[Temujin]

Some of my hen feathered roosters

 

[Wappoke]

This one from the same black hamburg looked silver when it was born. Is that what the sex-linked silver is?

All the other posts did a good job of explaining things- but I want to expand on the other posts.

You are confusing dominant white with sex-linked silver. They are two completely different genes and are inherited in a different manner.

Dominant white is a gene that inhibits black in every feather on the bird. Dominant white will make a bird that is normally black- white. Dominant white does not work on red feathers, If you had a red bird, and you could add dominant white to the bird's genetic makeup, the bird would still be red. Dominant white only works to inhibit the black pigments, not red pigments. Also, dominant white is an autosomal gene and is found on an autosomal chromosome - that is a chromosome that does not determine sex. Autosomal genes are found in pairs or paired with another gene that does not cause the trait. Autosomal genes are inherited in a normal inheritance pattern- If a female has two dominant white genes ( a pair) - every chick will inherit a dominant white gene. If a female carries one dominant white gene, some of the chicks will inherit a dominant white gene and the others will inherit a non-dominant white gene ( the gene paired with dominant white). The same goes for the father.

Sometimes when a bird inherits only one dominant white gene- some of the black pigment will not be inhibited and a bird will show black patches or even black feathers.

Black rooster x dominant white hen ( two dominant white genes)= all white offspring.

Black rooster x dominant white hen (one dominant white gene)= some white offspring and some black offspring


Silver ( makes a bird silver or white) and gold ( makes a bird red or buff)are both found at the same location on a Z sex chromosome. That is why they are called sex linked genes -they are linked to the Z sex chromosome. In chickens, the male has two Z chromosomes and the female is different she carries a W sex chromosome and a Z chromosome. For simplicity, lets say the W chromosome has no part in inheritance of color- so just forget the W chromosome. We only have to deal with Z chromosomes. A male (has two Z chromosomes) can have two silver genes- one silver gene on each Z chromosome- the female only has one Z chromosome so she can only carry one silver. Males can also have two gold genes ( one gold gene on each Z) which means they do not carry any silver genes. The silver and gold genes are located in the same spot on a Z chromosome, One and only one gene can occupy the spot- so a single Z chromosome carries either gold or silver. Since males have two Z's they can also carry one silver and one gold gene. Females can only carry one sex-linked gene so they carry either gold or silver-not both.

If a male carries two silver genes- he will show silver in a zonal pattern. That is the silver will only show up on certain areas of his body. The silver gene does not affect every feather on the body of the bird- dominant white will effect every black feather on the body of the bird.

If a female carries the silver gene (she can only carry one)- she will show some silver in her feathers. It will be zonal- usually the neck hackles.

Males can carry one silver and one gold- some silver genes will allow some red to show ( caused by the gold gene) in a bird while other silver genes will not. It is my understanding that every silver gene is not the same in every bird. Some are structured differently than others and this will allow for some red to show, So for simplicity, let's say if a male has a silver gene and a gold gene- the male will be silver in certain areas of his body. The hackles are a good example of this zonal color- the hackles of the male will be silver or white. In silver females the silver color will also be zonal- they usually show while in their hackles. There are other areas that can show silver but to keep things simple- the explanation will stop with the example given.Google and find a picture of a silver duck wing and you can see the other areas that can be silver.

There are other zones and with certain gene combinations that will cause much more silver to show on a bird- but we will not discuss this because it will make things more confusing. For this discussion- dominant white can make a whole bird white and silver only adds white to certain areas of the body( for example the hackles). There also genes that can cover the silver with black so the silver does not show.




Black male (silver but does not show) x golden cuckoo female = barred black males that may show some silver in the hackles and black females ( silver under black)

dominant white male (two dominant white genes and carries silver) x golden cuckoo female = all dominant white birds and any silver that does show will blend with the white. If the birds are gold the red will show in the hackles. This is why I said you want to breed your whites to birds that carry silver-Even if the silver does not show in the hackles ( black or barred birds).

golden cuckoo male ( he has two gold genes)x dominant white female = all dominant white birds but the gold inherited from the male will cause red to show in zones on the male and some of female offspring. This is what is happrning with your whites. Your whites are inheriting gold from a male or female.

There are other reasons for red to show but to discuss that would make things more difficult.

 

[Berryblue]

Thanks for your patience answering questions. So sounds like rooster is 1 dominant white but can't have red or he would be red. So he could have a black gene under the white but have gold as well?
So when crossed with a black it has black or white off spring. The silver is likely the hamburg cause nothing came through when crossed with the silkie splash.

So this one could be bl from silkie splash Bl from white but gets red cause it has gold in it? Or am I way off

Is this normal aged white or is it gold leakage?

 

[Chicken5555]

Is this normal aged white or is it gold leakage?

It is normal for white chickens' neck feathers to yellow if they get a lot of sun.

 

[Wappoke]

Thanks for your patience answering questions. So sounds like rooster is 1 dominant white but can't have red or he would be red. So he could have a black gene under the white but have gold as well?
So when crossed with a black it has black or white off spring. The silver is likely the hamburg cause nothing came through when crossed with the silkie splash.

So this one could be bl from silkie splash Bl from white but gets red cause it has gold in it? Or am I way off

Is this normal aged white or is it gold leakage?

The male could carry gold ( makes red) or silver- you do not know because he is black under the white. If he had red showing through the white he would have red showing through the black in his plumage.

splash birds are actually black birds so when you cross two blacks you should get blacks that are not showing any non-black color. Your white is black under the white and the splash is black under the splash.

 

[Berryblue]

It is normal for white chickens' neck feathers to yellow if they get a lot of sun.

And the saddle and some foot feathers?

 

[Berryblue]

...

The male could carry gold ( makes red) or silver- you do not know because he is black under the white. If he had red showing through the white he would have red showing through the black in his plumage. 

splash birds are actually black birds so when you cross two blacks you should get blacks that are not showing any non-black color. Your white is black under the white and the splash is black under the splash. 
[/quote
Doesn't splash have 2 blue genes that make it splash? So would always give blue?

 

[Wappoke]

Quote: This you must understand. A completely blue bird is actually a black bird that has its black color diluted to blue. A completely splash bird is actually a black bird that is diluted to splash. A completely white bird (that carries dominant white) is actually a black bird that has its black pigments inhibited to white.

When you predict color crosses, you have to also know what color is under the blue, splash or dominant white to make a prediction.

yes, splash has two blue genes that are diluting the black to splash and a splash bird will always give one blue gene to each offspring.

 

[Chicken5555]

@Wappoke

Let me start by saying that I love how well you explain genetics.

My Buff Laced Polish bred with a blue easter egger (when she jumped the coop).

The down on the half Polish chick is less yellow (almost white) compared to the down on the Leghorn's chicks. As far as I know the Polish does not carry silver (he can't right? Because if he had silver it would be dominant over the red that got diluted to buff by the dominant white gene. Correct me if I'm wrong). I don't think that this chick's mom has silver, based on the other chicks I've hatched from her eggs.

Here is my question - How is the dominant white in buff laced Polish different than the dominant white in a White Leghorn, genetically? If there is no difference, why does the down look white instead of yellow?

One of the two black w/red chicks hatched from eggs laid by the same hen.

 

[Berryblue]

This you must understand. A completely blue bird is actually a black bird that has its black color diluted to blue. A completely splash bird is actually a black bird that is diluted to splash. A completely white bird (that carries dominant white) is actually a black bird that has its black pigments inhibited to white. 

When you predict color crosses, you have to also know what color is under the blue, splash or dominant white to make a prediction.

yes, splash has two blue genes that are diluting the black to splash and a splash bird will always give one blue gene to each offspring.

Yes I get the blue is black diluted. That's the part that I know has passed on cause the splash carry 2 blue. It's the rest I'm working out how it all works to make the colours of the offspring. And I know that white means it's hiding it's base colour. That was what I wanted to figure out. I know there is recessive and dominant white and they work differently. It was the genes at play in the offspring that I didn't know what created their colour. But yesyyou have explained a lot and tried to keep it simple. Thanks