Comb questions

[CashewVulture]

I have a few questions about comb mixes.
1. If a rooster with a single comb mates with a hen with a V comb what will the chicks end up with?
2. if a rooster with a V comb mates with a cushion comb hen what comb will the chicks end up with?
3. if a rooster with a single comb mates with a cushion comb hen what comb will chicks end up with?

 

[NatJ]

I have a few questions about comb mixes.
1. If a rooster with a single comb mates with a hen with a V comb what will the chicks end up with?

Chicks will probably have combs that look sort-of like a buttercup comb. I've read that some chicks may look like they have a single comb, even when they do inherit the V-comb gene from one parent.

2. if a rooster with a V comb mates with a cushion comb hen what comb will the chicks end up with?

These chicks should get the genes for V comb, pea comb, and rose comb.

At a guess, it will probably look like an oversized cushion comb, possibly split in two down the middle or possibly not.

I have trouble finding information about V-comb crosses with comb types that are not single, so this is largely a guess.

If you raise chicks like this, please do post photos, so I can see what actually happens!

3. if a rooster with a single comb mates with a cushion comb hen what comb will chicks end up with?

This chicks should have a comb similar to a cushion comb, but probably a bit bigger. Genetics texts will call it a "walnut comb," but they would also call the cushion comb a "walnut comb," because in each case the chicken has both the pea comb and the rose comb gene.

 

[CashewVulture]

Chicks will probably have combs that look sort-of like a buttercup comb. I've read that some chicks may look like they have a single comb, even when they do inherit the V-comb gene from one parent.


These chicks should get the genes for V comb, pea comb, and rose comb.

At a guess, it will probably look like an oversized cushion comb, possibly split in two down the middle or possibly not.

I have trouble finding information about V-comb crosses with comb types that are not single, so this is largely a guess.

If you raise chicks like this, please do post photos, so I can see what actually happens!


This chicks should have a comb similar to a cushion comb, but probably a bit bigger. Genetics texts will call it a "walnut comb," but they would also call the cushion comb a "walnut comb," because in each case the chicken has both the pea comb and the rose comb gene.

Thanks for your detailed response! I actually have a almost 3 week old chick who is possibly Appenzeller Spitzhauben/Deathlayer (V comb and cushion comb) but I am not 100% sure since I also have an Icelandic rooster (single comb). The spitzhauben roo definitely mates more with the Deathlayer but the Icelandic still mates her as well. Here is a pic of the chick

 

[NatJ]

Thanks for your detailed response! I actually have a almost 3 week old chick who is possibly Appenzeller Spitzhauben/Deathlayer (V comb and cushion comb) but I am not 100% sure since I also have an Icelandic rooster (single comb). The spitzhauben roo definitely mates more with the Deathlayer but the Icelandic still mates her as well. Here is a pic of the chick

Do the Icelandic and the Spitzhauben both have crests? Because if only one has a crest, and if the chick then grows a crest, that might be one way to check parentage.

The chick's comb does appear to be split in two at the back, so I think it probably does have the V comb gene.

But I do not think that chick has the rose comb gene. The comb ought to be much wider. So if you are positive the Deathlayer is the mother, then she must have at least one copy of the not-rose comb gene. I can't tell for sure if the chick has the pea comb gene or not. Sometimes it's obvious, other times it looks enough like a single comb to be mistaken for it. But I'm thinking the row of points along the top of that comb are distinctive enough that the chick probably does not have the pea comb gene.


I'd be curious to see a photo of the Deathlayer mother. The appearance of her comb may give some clue to what is going on here.

But based on the chick's comb, I would also be double-checking whether any other hen could possibly be the mother of that chick.

 

[CashewVulture]

Do the Icelandic and the Spitzhauben both have crests? Because if only one has a crest, and if the chick then grows a crest, that might be one way to check parentage.

The chick's comb does appear to be split in two at the back, so I think it probably does have the V comb gene.

But I do not think that chick has the rose comb gene. The comb ought to be much wider. So if you are positive the Deathlayer is the mother, then she must have at least one copy of the not-rose comb gene. I can't tell for sure if the chick has the pea comb gene or not. Sometimes it's obvious, other times it looks enough like a single comb to be mistaken for it. But I'm thinking the row of points along the top of that comb are distinctive enough that the chick probably does not have the pea comb gene.


I'd be curious to see a photo of the Deathlayer mother. The appearance of her comb may give some clue to what is going on here.

But based on the chick's comb, I would also be double-checking whether any other hen could possibly be the mother of that chick.

Yes, the Icelandics have crests as well. They are backwards facing crests that lay on the back of their head though, not the same as the Spitzhaubens, who have a forward facing crest.

No, I’m not 100% sure the Deathlayer is the mother. We just assumed she was since the first feathers to come out were exactly like the deathlayer chicks we previously had. Also she looked very similar to deathlayer chicks when she had just hatched. None of our other breed chicks and mixes looked like that. But would it make more sense if she was a Icelandic/Spitzhauben mix? Or Deathlayer/Icelandic?

We only have Icelandic hens, Spitzhauben hens, and a Deathlayer that could be the potential mothers.

Here is a picture of the Deathlayer.

And an updated picture of the chick

 

[NatJ]

No, I’m not 100% sure the Deathlayer is the mother. We just assumed she was since the first feathers to come out were exactly like the deathlayer chicks we previously had. Also she looked very similar to deathlayer chicks when she had just hatched. None of our other breed chicks and mixes looked like that. But would it make more sense if she was a Icelandic/Spitzhauben mix? Or Deathlayer/Icelandic?

The Deathlayer definitely does have a rose comb, so she has either a 50% chance or a 100% chance to give rose comb to her chick (depend on whether she has one rose comb gene or two.)

The chick almost certainly does not have the rose comb gene.

We only have Icelandic hens, Spitzhauben hens, and a Deathlayer that could be the potential mothers.

I think the chick has one v-comb gene (must come from a Spitzhauben parent) and other than that it has not-V and not-rose genes.

So if one parent has a V comb, the other has either a single comb, or else the Deathlayer is carrying a not-rose comb gene even though she shows a rose comb.

Depending on the color of the Icelandics you have, I think the chick is more likely to be a cross of Spitzhauben and Icelandic, although I don't know which direction the cross would be. The chick doesn't look right for a pure Spitzhauben, and I don't think it's right for a pure Icelandic either, which obviously means it would have to be a mix of some sort (with or without the Deathlayer being part of the mix).

Yes, the Icelandics have crests as well. They are backwards facing crests that lay on the back of their head though, not the same as the Spitzhaubens, who have a forward facing crest.

If the chick grows a crest, it will be interesting to see which way it faces. The different breeds should have the same basic gene for crest, but the other genes controlling the details would be different, and I don't know how the different forms interact.

 

[CashewVulture]

The Deathlayer definitely does have a rose comb, so she has either a 50% chance or a 100% chance to give rose comb to her chick (depend on whether she has one rose comb gene or two.)

The chick almost certainly does not have the rose comb gene.


I think the chick has one v-comb gene (must come from a Spitzhauben parent) and other than that it has not-V and not-rose genes.

So if one parent has a V comb, the other has either a single comb, or else the Deathlayer is carrying a not-rose comb gene even though she shows a rose comb.

Depending on the color of the Icelandics you have, I think the chick is more likely to be a cross of Spitzhauben and Icelandic, although I don't know which direction the cross would be. The chick doesn't look right for a pure Spitzhauben, and I don't think it's right for a pure Icelandic either, which obviously means it would have to be a mix of some sort (with or without the Deathlayer being part of the mix).


If the chick grows a crest, it will be interesting to see which way it faces. The different breeds should have the same basic gene for crest, but the other genes controlling the details would be different, and I don't know how the different forms interact.

Ok thank you! It’s actually very likely that it’s an Icelandic/Spitzhauben mix! I would think the father was the Icelandic and mother a Spitzhauben.

I have a picture of the Icelandic rooster we have in
this post: https://www.backyardchickens.com/threads/purebred-appenzeller-spitzhaubens-or-mixed.1628570/

Actually the chick already has have a small backwards facing crest, so it looks more Icelandic-like!

 

[NatJ]

Ok thank you! It’s actually very likely that it’s an Icelandic/Spitzhauben mix! I would think the father was the Icelandic and mother a Spitzhauben.

I have a picture of the Icelandic rooster we have in
this post: https://www.backyardchickens.com/threads/purebred-appenzeller-spitzhaubens-or-mixed.1628570/

Actually the chick already has have a small backwards facing crest, so it looks more Icelandic-like!

It may become more obvious as it grows up, or it may always be a mystery.

I see that your Icelandic rooster has many traits in common with Spitzhaubens, and both of them have some overlap with Deathlayers, so the answer is not as obvious as some mixed-chick mysteries.

If the chick develops large amounts of red leakage as it matures, that would be a strong indicator that the mother has gold (like the Deathlayer), rather than both parents being silver. But a pure silver chicken can develop some red leakage, and a silver/gold cross might not have leakage after all, so this is still not going to tell for sure. At best, it will be "more likely" or "less likely."

The patterning in the feathers can change as the bird grows, but it may eventually look enough like a Spitzhauben or Deathlayer to make one of those more likely, but again it won't be a certainty.

But you may just never know

 

[CashewVulture]

I have trouble finding information about V-comb crosses with comb types that are not single, so this is largely a guess.

If you raise chicks like this, please do post photos, so I can see what actually happens!

Our broody hatched out a chick from our Deathlayer hen. Since it might be mixed with spitzhauben, I thought you might want to see. This is what it looks like I have no idea who the father is (Icelandic or Spitzhauben) because the comb looks identical to a normal cushion comb. (To me at least) Maybe it will be more evident as it grows up. What do you think?

 

[NatJ]

Our broody hatched out a chick from our Deathlayer hen. Since it might be mixed with spitzhauben, I thought you might want to see. This is what it looks like I have no idea who the father is (Icelandic or Spitzhauben) because the comb looks identical to a normal cushion comb. (To me at least) Maybe it will be more evident as it grows up. What do you think?

Thanks for showing it!

I agree that the comb does not show any splitting in two, at the present time. The chick's comb looks more rose than cushion to me, and so does the comb on the Deathlayer hen you posted.

I tried to look up what kind of combs Deathlayers have, and I found Greenfire Farms saying they have cushion combs-- but all the birds in the photos have rose combs, not cushion, so I don't know whether to believe the words or the pictures!

A cushion comb is genetically pea + rose, but I'm seeing what looks like normal rose comb on your hen, and Greenfire Farms' Deathlayer page, and I think (but am not positive) on your chick as well. If no parent has the pea comb gene, then the chick cannot have it either (the Spitzhauben will not have the pea comb gene, the Deathlayer looks like she does not, and the Icelandic rooster in your other thread appears to have a normal single comb, so no pea comb gene from him either.)

But either way, I think the chick's comb looks like its mother's comb, and does not show any signs of having a V-comb gene (which could mean no Spitzhauben father, or it could mean Spitzhauben father but the V-comb gene really does not show any visible effects on a rose comb at this age.)