Coop Ideas - Flooring, Size, and Position relative to run

[tori729]

I just obtained 8 pullets and am hiring a friend to build a coop for us. He has a lot of experience making coops for people and knows how to make them to keep predators out. However, I do have some questions. I told him I wanted enough space for up to 12 hens and he sent me a rough sketch (attached below) that's only 4x3 which seems small according to all of the info on here. He also suggested 2x2 wire as the floor and having the coop situated on the outside of the run so the poop could fall through the wire; another idea that seems to not be the best/most popular. I was thinking of having it elevated and part of the coop so I could put the food and water under the coop so they are more covered.
I know the best defense is to have the coop surrounded by the run on all sides but then I would need to go into the run to collect eggs, correct?
Also, I'm planning on using a trampoline frame wrapped with chicken wire as the run area. (15' diameter) I would love to let the chickens roam during the day, but we do have hawks. I plan on having him build a roof frame and having light cloth attached to the top to keep those out.
Attached is the plan he gave me. Is this enough ventilation if he makes it bigger? We are in the humid south with mild winters.
ETA: He says he doesn't think I need bedding in the coop since they will only be sleeping there. I'm trying to figure out if I should do a wood floor anyway so I can use the underside for shelter rather than having it just be a place outside of the run for poop to fall. Thoughts?

 

[rosemarythyme]

The measurements they're using are for factory farm conditions and I'd like to think most of us here strive for something better. Rather than ask for a "12 bird set up" specify what it is that you want. I built for a flock of 12 and my coop is 6x10 (oversized due to internal nestboxes eating up floor space), to give you a better idea of the amount of coop space we'd recommend.

The other thing to consider is it's nearly impossible to ventilate something that small for that many birds. Each bird needs 1 sq ft ventilation (preferably up high) in moderate temperatures. When it gets hot you're looking at closer to 2-3 sq ft of ventilation, which is pretty much is all your walls space. My guess is his design uses the wire floor to provide air flow? I've seen a few coops like that on here and I believe they do work in hotter climates but I have no experience with that kind of set up so you'd need advice from someone who's tried a wire floor before.

You said the trampoline frame is 15" diameter? I assume you mean 15 feet? Chicken wire is not at all predator proof - it'll keep out birds of prey but nothing else, including snakes, rodents, raccoons, and anything larger. The "light cloth" on top for hawk is what, exactly? I use a heavy duty UV resistant netting to ensure birds of prey can't break through it.

 

[tori729]

Yes 15' oops!
The 4x3 doesn't include nesting boxes, those are situated on the outside. That's a good point about the wire being ventilation; I guess I could just put down chips over the wire in the winter to keep it warmer?

So for the run, I could line the bottom with hardware cloth, correct? And then flare out wire over the edges of the frame and block it up to keep out critters from digging? And for the roof, he suggested a lightweight garden netting b/c it's very shaded where we are putting the run/coop. I also have an old trampoline mat I can use for part of it.

 

[SourRoses]

There are a lot of problems with his design.

The main reason wire floors are not popular here is because 1/2 inch hardware cloth doesn't let enough chicken sized poop fall through, especially from older layers, so it gets gummed up and is difficult to clean.
Anything wider than 1/2 inch hardware cloth will let predators in, including snakes, mink, rats (I had a half-grown pullet get eaten due to a small gap), etc.

The roosts are so close together that it will make getting up & down difficult. Chickens need a clear flight path.
In that regard, I've never understood the ramps because all the breeds we've had can manage a few feet down and up.

The ventilation, while it's good that it's located at the roof peak, is really not enough (especially in your warm climate). There doesn't seem to be an opposing wall vent to supply the replacement air for the air flowing out - these should be roughly equal - so the vent he did include is not going to be very effective.
On that note, the short internal height of the structure won't allow for opposing ventilation without being on the same height as the birds on their roosts, which would be a problem in winter causing direct drafts.

In summary:
Make it bigger
Make it taller
More ventilation
X the poop catchment screens (most keepers like an easily accessible poop board that can be scooped).

Rather than a sliding door, for an inexpensive manual option, we've rather liked having pulley system doors. Pop door sits in a wooden track, rope tied to the top, goes up high through a rolling pulley, and down to a tie-off in a convenient place to be reached. (if necessary, adding some screw-in metal eyelets before the pulley to transition direction smoothly)
A sliding door takes more effort to move, and they tend to get worse with weather exposure.

 

[rosemarythyme]

Yes 15' oops!
The 4x3 doesn't include nesting boxes, those are situated on the outside. That's a good point about the wire being ventilation; I guess I could just put down chips over the wire in the winter to keep it warmer?

So for the run, I could line the bottom with hardware cloth, correct? And then flare out wire over the edges of the frame and block it up to keep out critters from digging? And for the roof, he suggested a lightweight garden netting b/c it's very shaded where we are putting the run/coop. I also have an old trampoline mat I can use for part of it.

Are you really planning on signing off on a 12 sq ft coop? The nesting boxes being outside makes no difference, I cannot recommend more than 3 chickens in this unit.

Ventilation is needed all year round, not just summer. Blocking off ventilation means more ventilation needs to be added elsewhere. I'm not convinced there is a way to have 12 sq ft of open ventilation if you cover up the floor - and if the floor is going to be covered up, why risk having wire on there in the first place?

The run (just as with the coop) is better without wire on the floor. An apron of 18-24" should suffice for pest proofing. If you must put wire on the ground you need to dig down and bury it 8-12" deep, as chickens do like to dig and can cut themselves or rip off toes on the wire. For the top of the run, I would recommend a heavy duty netting vs garden netting. A lightweight netting is going to be prone to breakage (if stretched taut) and tangling (if not stretched taut). Not exactly sure how this trampoline run will be set up but whatever netting you use will need proper support in the center as well as at the edges.

 

[tori729]

Ventilation is needed all year round, not just summer. Blocking off ventilation means more ventilation needs to be added elsewhere. I'm not convinced there is a way to have 12 sq ft of open ventilation if you cover up the floor - and if the floor is going to be covered up, why risk having wire on there in the first place?

So what would you suggest for ventilation? I think he is putting vents on all sides of the top roof eaves - if we make it bigger and do that would it be enough?

 

[rosemarythyme]

So what would you suggest for ventilation? I think he is putting vents on all sides of the top roof eaves - if we make it bigger and do that would it be enough?

Depends on the measurements - you need at least 12 sq ft of ventilation open all year round. Summers, if hot and humid you're looking at 24 to 36 sq ft of open venting throughout summer. I don't live in your climate but other folks in the Carolinas have advocated for open air coops, so I have to imagine heat and humidity is an issue there.

You're still not addressing the fact that this coop is way too small overall. Maybe you'll be lucky and things will work out, but odds are higher you'll be asking in 6 months to ask why birds are missing feathers or are being bullied out of the coop at night, and then at that time you'd have to pay to expand the coop anyhow. It's harder to fix issues than to address them before it ever happens.

 

[Bananabread]

If you have a handy builder, I would simply go to the coops pages on here, find an example of something you like factoring in adjacent landscaping, any sloping, etc) and then send it to your friend.

As has been mentioned, the plans that have been generated are not ideal for backyard chickens, particularly if you have predators and/or pests. I don't want to discredit your friends ability to build a coop nor be disrespectful to his experience if he has build coops like this in similar conditions for which the hens thrived. BUT it is worth consideration if this is his first chicken coop that you may have to have a more heavy hand in the planning/design phase.

I had a colleague who was landscaping his property, last minute decided he wanted chickens and asked the crew if they could build one. They erected a structure in 3 days, no sweat, not one drop lost. Unfortunately, the nicely constructed coop was made without any actual insight and withing 4 months of having pullets, an animal got in and mortally wounded all 8 of them. I say this not to be dramatic but simply provide an example where a construction team had no issues building a structure that resembled a coop and run but didn't have the critical components worked out for the hens to thrive (e.g., hardware cloth, multiple racoon proof latches, aprons, no gaps >1/2" etc.)

Just my two cents for what its worth.

Sounds like you have an ideal situation though. Someone ready to build! Hopefully providing a little direction will go a long way in the short and long run

 

[tori729]

If you have a handy builder, I would simply go to the coops pages on here, find an example of something you like factoring in adjacent landscaping, any sloping, etc) and then send it to your friend.

As has been mentioned, the plans that have been generated are not ideal for backyard chickens, particularly if you have predators and/or pests. I don't want to discredit your friends ability to build a coop nor be disrespectful to his experience if he has build coops like this in similar conditions for which the hens thrived. BUT it is worth consideration if this is his first chicken coop that you may have to have a more heavy hand in the planning/design phase.

I had a colleague who was landscaping his property, last minute decided he wanted chickens and asked the crew if they could build one. They erected a structure in 3 days, no sweat, not one drop lost. Unfortunately, the nicely constructed coop was made without any actual insight and withing 4 months of having pullets, an animal got in and mortally wounded all 8 of them. I say this not to be dramatic but simply provide an example where a construction team had no issues building a structure that resembled a coop and run but didn't have the critical components worked out for the hens to thrive (e.g., hardware cloth, multiple racoon proof latches, aprons, no gaps >1/2" etc.)

Just my two cents for what its worth.

Sounds like you have an ideal situation though. Someone ready to build! Hopefully providing a little direction will go a long way in the short and long run

Thanks for the help. I'm working with him on expanding it and putting in a wire floor but it sounds like he's limited to 3' width b/c his roofing panels are 3' wide.
He has done this for lots of people - he asked me specifically how many chickens it would be for and has lots of tips. He has had his own chickens as well, so I do trust his judgement. The coop will be situated in a shady corner of my yard which I know will help in the heat. He seems to understand the ventilation issue and that they need a good bit.
I don't want to give him a job that's bigger than what he can do/expects to do because then I might lose my builder altogether. This is helpful to know what to say and how to ask for different things that are important.

 

[GCrumb]

You might look at some of @Shadrach's ones https://www.backyardchickens.com/articles/shadrach’s-multi-coops.74344/

I'm pretty happy with having multiple tiny coops and adding more as needed. I haven't had trouble with our current arrangement of two small coops in one big run.