Copper Sulfate for treating bumblefoot?

[Fluffy_Feathers]

I've done some research on copper sulfate for treating bumblefoot. Some people suggest soaking the affected foot in water with copper sulfate in it. Does anyone have any experience with this? Could this be harmful for a chicken to soak in? Thanks

 

[azygous]

I've never heard of using it to treat a bacterial infection. I've worked with copper sulfate treating drinking water in a public reservoir to control algae blooms. I've used it for protozoa infections in chickens and also yeast.

I'd be interested in some links to studies where it's used successfully on bacteria.

 

[Fluffy_Feathers]

I'd be interested in some links to studies where it's used successfully on bacteria.

I found this one, where it actually mentions its effectiveness against staph in particular:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6717487/

This one isn't a study, but it's an educational website and mentions it as something that kills bacteria:
http://npic.orst.edu/factsheets/cuso4gen.html#whatis

 

[azygous]

Both very helpful sources of information. Thank you!

It's particularly reassuring that there is an alternative to antibiotics when treating a stubborn bacterial infection.

I see no downside to using it to soak a bumblefoot case.

 

[Fluffy_Feathers]

Both very helpful sources of information. Thank you!

It's particularly reassuring that there is an alternative to antibiotics when treating a stubborn bacterial infection.

I see no downside to using it to soak a bumblefoot case.

No problem! I actually heard about this from my environmental science teacher. I have been treating bumblefoot for about a month and a half now, and just recently I looked up whether triple-antibiotic is even effective against staph. Apparently, with some conflicting information, it isn't super effective. This kind of confuses me because a lot of treatments on the internet talk about how the bumblefoot hole should be packed with triple antibiotic. But staph is notoriously resistant to common antibiotics. I mentioned this to my teacher, and she suggested the copper sulfate. She has a bunch and is willing to give me some to try.

Something that I'm concerned about is there doesn't seem to be a whole lot of people using it for bumblefoot, and so I'm worried about how a chicken may react with it, or if a certain amount is toxic and how much to use. I know it's used to treat canker in chickens and is administered orally, but I've read that it's easy to use too much and can be toxic so some people don't like using it. But would the toxicity levels be the same if she's just soaking in it?

I don't know a whole lot about copper sulfate so I want to be absolutely sure that I know what I'm doing before messing with a substance that I have no experience with.

 

[azygous]

I hear you. Yes, it can be super toxic if misused. I found that out the hard way back when I was a brand new park ranger and on duty all alone one day at the reservoir where I was working.

There was an algae bloom and the water department had ordered the lake to be treated, passed the order to my boss, who passed the order to me.

I was given the sacks of copper sulfate and the keys to the boat and ordered out on the lake without any training or protective gear. It was a very windy day and I couldn't help breathing in the stuff. That night I bled profusely from my gums and it wouldn't stop. The stuff is absorbed through the skin, also.

In the morning I called my dentist, and he said yes, the copper sulfate was likely responsible. He suggested rinsing my mouth with peroxide until the bleeding stopped. Later, I informed my boss what happened, and I will spare you the scape-goating I suffered from him and his boss who knew they were in deep s*#t and covered by painting me as the derelict employee.

I think if you follow the dilution ratio of one-fourth to one-half teaspoon of copper sulfate to one gallon of water, you will be safe. That would be my comfort zone to treat a chicken with copper sulfate externally. Also, I would keep the soaking down to something like five minutes to limit absorption into the chicken's system.

It's probably safe at higher doses and longer exposure, but since we're treading new ground, it pays to start off modestly. Keep a record of how the wound responds and any change in the chicken's behavior. If needed, you can increase the dose incrementally and lengthen the soaking time, keeping records so we'll know at what dose this is going to affect the bacteria.

I wish someone would see your thread who's tried this. Maybe it will happen. We'll chat about this as you undertake this experiment and keep your thread up at the top.

 

[Fluffy_Feathers]

I hear you. Yes, it can be super toxic if misused. I found that out the hard way back when I was a brand new park ranger and on duty all alone one day at the reservoir where I was working.

There was an algae bloom and the water department had ordered the lake to be treated, passed the order to my boss, who passed the order to me.

I was given the sacks of copper sulfate and the keys to the boat and ordered out on the lake without any training or protective gear. It was a very windy day and I couldn't help breathing in the stuff. That night I bled profusely from my gums and it wouldn't stop. The stuff is absorbed through the skin, also.

In the morning I called my dentist, and he said yes, the copper sulfate was likely responsible. He suggested rinsing my mouth with peroxide until the bleeding stopped. Later, I informed my boss what happened, and I will spare you the scape-goating I suffered from him and his boss who knew they were in deep s*#t and covered by painting me as the derelict employee.

I think if you follow the dilution ratio of one-fourth to one-half teaspoon of copper sulfate to one gallon of water, you will be safe. That would be my comfort zone to treat a chicken with copper sulfate externally. Also, I would keep the soaking down to something like five minutes to limit absorption into the chicken's system.

It's probably safe at higher doses and longer exposure, but since we're treading new ground, it pays to start off modestly. Keep a record of how the wound responds and any change in the chicken's behavior. If needed, you can increase the dose incrementally and lengthen the soaking time, keeping records so we'll know at what dose this is going to affect the bacteria.

I wish someone would see your thread who's tried this. Maybe it will happen. We'll chat about this as you undertake this experiment and keep your thread up at the top.

Sorry, I didn't see your reply earlier! I actually came back to post a little bit of an update. I got the copper sulfate and have been keeping it on hand. I wasn't going to use it until if I needed to remove the scab on one of her feet because the infection was growing. Turns out that day is today, but I don't have any mixed up so I will do use it tomorrow.

My plan starting out is I am going to soak her in Epsom salt for 10 minutes, as usual. Then, I will remove any scab that has formed over night. I will have a bowl of fresh water and I will have a mason jar of that stuff mixed in. I have an oral medicine syringe (for dogs) that I will use to flush her wound out with the copper sulfate. I will let her sit for around 5 minutes to let it do it's stuff, then I will syringe fresh water to flush it out. I may soak her foot for a while in the fresh water too if I feel like it's needed. I don't want any of that stuff to be trapped in her wound, at least for the time being. I'm then going to spray with vetericyn and put triple antibiotic in the wound, like I have been doing. I assume there wouldn't be a reaction with that stuff and the copper sulfate?

This is just for starting out. I agree completely about starting off modestly. I've taken almost daily pictures of her feet since I've started, and will definitely continue to take pictures to compare and record. Once I'm confident that it is safe, I will start actually soaking her if she still needs it. This may be a bit of unnecessary caution, and it'd probably be okay to start soaking her right off the bat. I may rethink my plan.

Thank you for the ratios to start out with! I really had no idea how much to use, so I feel better with a starting point. I'll also definitely make sure to wear googles and a mask.

 

[azygous]

Your plan is a sound one.

Copper sulfate is really only dangerous when it's in crystal powder form. It's very caustic. As long as your chicken isn't expose in any way to the crystals, it should be safe to treat as you've planned.

You need to handle the crystals carefully. If you get any on your skin, flush with water immediately.

I'll tell you sometime about making beautiful blue copper crystals out of copper sulfate solution. I did that when I was in high school in chemistry class, and I showed the crystals later at a gem and mineral show where my parents had a booth. It's a great experiment for older children.

 

[Fluffy_Feathers]

Copper sulfate is really only dangerous when it's in crystal powder form.

Wait... so, when it has a sandy consistency like this? Is this crystal powder form? Or are you saying once it's diluted in water it's safer?

 

[azygous]

Yes. The powdered form is caustic. It's sort of like powdered cleanser with bleach. You don't want that on your skin. Once it is in suspension (mixed into water), it's safe to handle. They treat our drinking water reservoirs with the stuff.