Cream Legbars

[lonnyandrinda]

Caroline-

Sorry to hear you lost your sweeties! Hope you are able to locate some next spring! Welcome to the CL thread!

 

[ChicKat]

x2 sorry for your loss Caroline. Still wondering about the birds in your early 1900's photo of your grandmother? I would guess that they are Barred Plymouth Rocks - a very ubiquitous family back yard chicken in the USA in earlier times.

 

[harriedhomemaker]

I'd love to get input from the experienced breeders out there on breeding pen numbers/arrangement.

We are meeting with a contractor tomorrow to discuss building a barn. One of the lean-tos on the barn is going to used in part for a chicken house for my Cream Legbars.

If you had a 25' x 10' space to play with, how many pens would you divide it into? I don't plan on breeding any other breeds of chickens, though I am contemplating using part of the space for turkeys. I do have other chicken coops and pens that I can use for small breeding groups, but I plan to make the barn Legbar central. I am just getting started, so I really don't have any idea how many groups of CLs I will have as I attempt to improve my flock via breeding.

I was thinking of dividing it up similarly to this coop. https://www.backyardchickens.com/a/big-coop

Thoughts?

 

[HaplessRunner]

Apparent Confirmation of Transmission of Cream Legbar Autosexing Traits

Earlier, I had posted some pictures of the results of crossing cream legbars with an EE hen and RIR hens. This came about initially to keep three males who had reached sexual maturity prior to the cream legbar pullets. This allowed the pullets to grow without too much harassment from the juvenile males. It worked as planned. So on a whim, I decided to hatch some of these eggs to see what would come of this crossing. i was curious as to whether the autosexing traits could be transmitted.

When the three chicks hatched, I was fairly certain that the trait had been transmitted. The CCLxEE roo appeared to have a white spot on his head. Feather sexing also indicated that this chick was a roo. As you will note from the pictures at one week below, it does appear that the autosexing trait did transmit to this first generation cross.

Hatching pictures of CCxEE Roo





CCLxEE Roo at one week









Note what appears to be a definitive white spot on his head as opposed to a "cap" exhibited by other barred chick varieties. While certainly a case may be made for the chipmunk stripping on this chicks back, my feeling is that this more attributable to the EE inheritance.

For reference:

EE Mother of CCLxEE Roo



Father of CCLxEE Roo and CCLxRIR Pullets



With respect to the CCLxRIR crosses, each of these chicks exhibited strong chipmunk stripping as well some RIR striping from the back of their heads. Feather sexing also appears to indicate that these two chicks are pullets.

The following pictures are of the CCLxRIR pullets on hatching day:

Pullet #1





Pullet #2





The following pictures at one week of age are much more definitive. You will see heavy chipmunk striping and CCL eye liner as well as the RIR center strip down the back of the head. What you will not see is any indication of a white spot on the head of these chicks.

Pullet #1


Pullet #2


Both chicks together




This has been an interesting adventure. Thoughts?

 

[KPenley]

I think that at least some of the autosexing markings would show up on any match between a Legbar Roo and a dark down Hen (since the spot etc wouldn't show up on light down). Your Beasters/Eggbars??? and Rhodebars are so cute!

 

[HaplessRunner]

I think that at least some of the autosexing markings would show up on any match between a Legbar Roo and a dark down Hen (since the spot etc wouldn't show up on light down). Your Beasters/Eggbars??? and Rhodebars are so cute!

LOL - looked up the rhodebars write up on GF. Other than the potential for blue eggs, I may have inadvertently backed into the rhodebars with this combination of CCLxRIR.

 

[1muttsfan]

Would these be considered autosexing, or sex-links? Autosexing is not a distinct genetic trait, it is based on the color genes carried by the parents, so it not inherited the same way a genetic trait such as silkie feathering or blue coloration.

 

[ChicKat]

I'd love to get input from the experienced breeders out there on breeding pen numbers/arrangement.

We are meeting with a contractor tomorrow to discuss building a barn. One of the lean-tos on the barn is going to used in part for a chicken house for my Cream Legbars.

If you had a 25' x 10' space to play with, how many pens would you divide it into? I don't plan on breeding any other breeds of chickens, though I am contemplating using part of the space for turkeys. I do have other chicken coops and pens that I can use for small breeding groups, but I plan to make the barn Legbar central. I am just getting started, so I really don't have any idea how many groups of CLs I will have as I attempt to improve my flock via breeding.

I was thinking of dividing it up similarly to this coop. https://www.backyardchickens.com/a/big-coop

Thoughts?

whoo Hoooo -- yep, you need one just like that one. :O) Thanks for the link.
Not an experienced breeder, just a rookie, but I'm thinking in the perfect world...I would want 3 runs/pens for 3 lines so I could do spiral breeding, then a grow out pen for each sex, a sick-bay or quarantine pen...separated and far away. So I think Ideally I would divide a big run into about 5 spaces. Part of the time the grow-outs could be empty, and they wouldn't need to be as large. I find that my CL roosters have reached sexual maturity earlier than my pullets so I pull the roosters out by themselves to avoid stress on the pullets...who must be stressed enough just coming into lay - and that is a vulnerable time for pullets. JMO.

Good luck with it AND -- please keep us updated as you progress. Really interesting stuff.

 

[HaplessRunner]

Would these be considered autosexing, or sex-links? Autosexing is not a distinct genetic trait, it is based on the color genes carried by the parents, so it not inherited the same way a genetic trait such as silkie feathering or blue coloration.

Great question! Unfortunately, not enough chicks hatched to be able to answer that. If I am correct, I have a young CCLxEE cockerel and two CCLxRIR pullets. If there had been more that hatched of opposite sex, then a conclusion could have been drawn regarding sex linking versus autosexing. The conclusion I am leaning toward is the transmission of autosexing charateristics given the distinctive white spot on the head of what I believe is a young cockerel given feather sexing confirmation. Likewise, I am leaning to the autosexing characteristics of chipmunk stripes in what I believe are two pullets given feather sexing confirmation.

It would have been nice to have more survive incubation. I guess I will have to try to hatch some more. My interests here are both practical and academic (if you will). The practical was taking the heat off my young pullets while they were still maturing. The academic is trying determine if it is possible to transmit the autosexing charateristics through selective (in the future) cross breeding.

If there are others with more knowledge and experience, please weigh in. I truly am a novice in this.

 

[lonnyandrinda]

Hapless Runner- have you read the sex-linked thread? https://www.backyardchickens.com/t/261208/sex-linked-information Post 1 is long but VERY informative. I will apply my (limited) knowledge to your situation:

Sexlinks are made two ways.

1. Non-barred rooster over barred hens. This creates boys with a head spot and girls without (most black sexlinks/black stars are produced this way). You cannot create sexlinks with your setup because you are using a barred rooster (Cream Legbar). You will not be able to sex any mixed chicks using headspot. The headspot chick appearing male is purely coincidental in your case.

2. Gold (red)-based cockerel X silver-based hen. This creates gold/red female chicks and silver/white male chicks (most red sexlinks/red stars are produced this way). It is POSSIBLE you could come across that with your EE hen as there is no way to know if she is silver based or gold based without test mating. You could grow them out and see if it works.

As you can see from the sex-linked thread it is much more complicated than this, as some breeds work better than others even if they have the correct barring or gold/silver genes, but that is the simplified version of how it works.

ETA: Cream Legbars are gold based in case you didn't realize that. The only way to make sexlinks with Cream Legbars is to cross a roo with a silver-based hen, or to put a CL hen under a non-barred rooster. And even that will only work if the chick down colors are light enough to see the difference between the males and females.