Cream Legbars

[LONDON HENS]

that boy looks "Crele" not "Cream Crele"

Crele bird without cream



"Cream Crele" almost Silver Crele

more info on these differences https://www.backyardchickens.com/t/...roup-standard-of-perfection/960#post_10446091

What do you mean by Crele" not "Cream Crele?

 

[1muttsfan]

Crele is just a descriptive term that indicates barring. It is caused by the same sex-linked barring gene (B) that produces barred rocks and other barred birds. However, in rapid-feathering breeds, the barring takes a v-shaped form and is not as distinct as the horizontal barring present in BR's, and is called crele. It is not a color gene, and crele markings can be found in many different colors. EIther a bird is crele, or is not, just like a barred bird.

 

[dretd]

Crele is just a descriptive term that indicates barring.  It is caused by the same sex-linked barring gene (B) that produces barred rocks and other barred birds.  However, in rapid-feathering breeds, the barring takes a v-shaped form and is not as distinct as the horizontal barring present in BR's, and is called crele.  It is not a color gene, and crele markings can be found in many different colors.  EIther a bird is crele, or is not, just like a barred bird.

See now I thought crele was barring when put over a gold duckwing pattern or a black breasted red pattern.

Honestly, when I look at the examples that nicalandia said were crele, and I take away the barring, I am having a hard time thinking the birds would be called gold duckwing or BBR, to my eye they look diluted somehow--is it a cream dilution or some other dilution gene? I have no idea because I am not a geneticist, but looking at them with my eyeball tells me they look somehow diluted.

What do others think?

 

[nicalandia]

Crele is just a descriptive term that indicates barring.

No... Crele is a Phenotype(how the bird looks) describing a bird(usually male) of the following genotype(genetic make up) genetically barred(genetically Barred not phenotypically Barred like Barred Rocks) gold duckwing bird usually with the following genotype B/B(double barred male's color are much lighter than single barred males) s+/s+(recessive sex linked gold) e+/e+(wildtpe e allele found on Red Jungle Fowl, while this is true for most breeds, some crele are based on the eb brown e allele like the crele penedesenca)

so again "Crele" is a phenotype of a bird with the following genotype s+/s+ B/B e+/e+ Ig+/Ig+(dominant autosomal none cream gene)
"Cream Crele" is a phenotype of a bird with the following genotype s+/s+ B/B e+/e+ ig/g(recessive autosomal cream gene)
"Silver Crele" is a phenotype of a bird with the following genotype S/S(dominant Sex linked Silver) B/B e+/e+ Ig+/Ig+(dominant autosomal

It is caused by the same sex-linked barring gene (B) that produces barred rocks and other barred birds. However, in rapid-feathering breeds, the barring takes a v-shaped form and is not as distinct as the horizontal barring present in BR's, and is called crele.

crele markings can be found in many different colors. EIther a bird is crele, or is not, just like a barred bird.

again you are confusing Crele with Cuckoo. yes Cuckoo can be had in many color as in Blue cukoo, chocolate cuckoo and lemon cukcoo(which is a buff bird with the barring gene) but why true Barred birds(Phenotype) Cant be had with gold colore birds like Lemon Cuckoo? why?

well thats because the dominant Sex linked slow feathering gene K is linked to the Silver gene(S) by 1.1 centimorgan(extremely close) meaning that 99% of all of the chicks that hatched with the slow feathering genes will be Silver and the ones with rapid feathering gene will be gold. thats why you cant have a nicely Barred gold bird. that is unless you hatch 1000 eggs and wait for that 1% of chicks to turn up.

 

[dretd]

so again "Crele" is a phenotype of a bird with the following genotype s+/s+ B/B e+/e+ Ig+/Ig+(dominant autosomal none cream gene)
"Cream Crele" is a phenotype of a bird with the following genotype s+/s+ B/B e+/e+ ig/g(recessive autosomal cream gene)
"Silver Crele" is a phenotype of a bird with the following genotype S/S(dominant Sex linked Silver) B/B e+/e+ Ig+/Ig+(dominant autosomal

nicalandia, are there any labs here in the US that will do genotyping of fowl? I know you can do horses to look for cream or dun or agouti etc, but I don't know if you can do chickens. Its a pretty big deal in some breeds horses to get it checked out. You can have a palomino (cream dilution over brown) that can vary anywhere from 'buttermilk' to deep, deep golden and I am thinking that the same thing may apply to chickens.

 

[nicalandia]

See now I thought crele was barring when put over a gold duckwing pattern or a black breasted red pattern.

thats correct. some posters have a limited knowledge of what they post. any question just P.M me and/or post it here

Honestly, when I look at the examples that nicalandia said were crele, and I take away the barring, I am having a hard time thinking the birds would be called gold duckwing or BBR, to my eye they look diluted somehow--is it a cream dilution or some other dilution gene? I have no idea because I am not a geneticist, but looking at them with my eyeball tells me they look somehow diluted.

What do others think?

I understand your point of view..! do they look Diluted? Yes..! Why? that's why I'm here, to let you know why

so why do they look diluted?
thats because of the effect of a double dose of the Barring gene on the male(females cant have two copies)

nicalandia, are there any labs here in the US that will do genotyping of fowl?chickens.

I'm not aware of any place and I'm located in Nicaragua not the US

 

[nicalandia]

so why do they look diluted?
thats because of the effect of a double dose of the Barring gene on the male(females cant have two copies)

do you want to know how does a single dose of barring does to the same bird? click on this link which will show you a small pic of the birds(seems like the pic is no longer working but google has that small pic for preview, so we can still see it) http://www.google.com/imgres?q=Henk...w=215&start=0&ndsp=30&ved=1t:429,r:0,s:0,i:79

now on that thread Henk shows the sire of those single barred crele birds and stated that crele is best looking when only one copy of the barring gene is pressent, indicating that two copies is way too diluted, this ofcourse only applies to crele birds not cream crele, which should look near silver due to double dose of the barring gene and the cream gene on his homozygouse state

Crele is best when intermediate.

This is the pure father of the creles above:

so Yes True Crested Cream legbar should look near silver due to homozygous Barring and Cream acting together to dilute the gold tone to a near silver state

 

[normanack]

Highlights from the thread "Crele?" on byc:
www.backyardchickens.com/t/282315/crele

The following posts are particularly interesting.

post 2 by Henk69 (Netherlands) "A true crele is a partridge or a light brown with the barring gene B added."
[Note "partridge" in Europe is not the same as "partridge" in the U.S., but rather "black-breasted red." Vcomb, post 7]
[Note: Kev disagrees and says "In the USA, Partridge is Brown (eb)." Kev, post 28]
[Note: blackdotte elaborates on partridge: "Partridge is a meaningless hobby name, but Partridge Wyandottes etc are pencilled and ebBrown based. On the other hand Partridge OE Game hens are stippled and e+ Duckwing based.]
[Note: Tadkerson explains historical use of brown eb and partridge ep gene names. Tadkerson, post 39]

post 8 by blackdotte for definition of crele as a game color. Includes breeding chart.

posts 9 and 32 by Chris09 quotes crele info from Old English Game Bantams as Bred and Shown in the United States, located here:
books.google.com/books/about/Old_English_game_bantams_as_bred_and_sho.html?id=r-VJAAAAYAAJ

post 33: Sonoran Silkies throws in e-alleles. Detailed genetic discussion ensues over many posts.

post 65 by blackdotte, in answer to a question by flyingmonkeypoop [Hi flyingmonkeypoop!]: Etymology of crele: "Crele is a game bird name from cockfighting days in Britain. The colour was considered reminiscent to the cross hatch pattern of a woven fishing crele or creel, that was made from woven reeds or similar material. Spelling dependent on what part of the country you came from. Creole is of Spanish origin and referred originally to a European born in the New World colonies of Spain, Portugal & France. It was then used as an adjective to describe people, languages and other things, such as food, that derived from this mixed race origin."

 

[nicalandia]

Highlights from the thread "Crele?" on byc:
www.backyardchickens.com/t/282315/crele

The following posts are particularly interesting.

post 2 by Henk69 (Netherlands) "A true crele is a partridge or a light brown with the barring gene B added."
[Note "partridge" in Europe is not the same as "partridge" in the U.S., but rather "black-breasted red." Vcomb, post 7]
[Note: Kev disagrees and says "In the USA, Partridge is Brown (eb)." Kev, post 28]
[Note: blackdotte elaborates on partridge: "Partridge is a meaningless hobby name, but Partridge Wyandottes etc are pencilled and ebBrown based. On the other hand Partridge OE Game hens are stippled and e+ Duckwing based.]
[Note: Tadkerson explains historical use of brown eb and partridge ep gene names. Tadkerson, post 39]

Crele is a Phenotype(how the bird looks) describing a bird(usually male) of the following genotype(genetic make up) genetically barred(genetically Barred not phenotypically Barred like Barred Rocks) gold duckwing bird usually with the following genotype B/B(double barred male's color are much lighter than single barred males) s+/s+(recessive sex linked gold) e+/e+(wildtpe e allele found on Red Jungle Fowl, while this is true for most breeds, some crele are based on the eb brown e allele like the crele penedesenca)

 

[ChicKat]

nicalandia, are there any labs here in the US that will do genotyping of fowl? I know you can do horses to look for cream or dun or agouti etc, but I don't know if you can do chickens. Its a pretty big deal in some breeds horses to get it checked out. You can have a palomino (cream dilution over brown) that can vary anywhere from 'buttermilk' to deep, deep golden and I am thinking that the same thing may apply to chickens.

dretd -

I love that saying "great minds think alike" - I was also thinking it would be valuable to have a DNA genetic sequence on Cream Legbar.... There is a lab in Canada that does bird genetics, I think that they concentrate on sexing birds (which CL owners don't need) and relationships. The cost was listed as 20.00 (I think maybe Canadian $) This one I think: http://www.healthgene.com/avian-dna-testing/avian-dna-relation

Here is one I found, that tests for disease and bird sexing..could one of these labs expand to the genetics we would need?? http://www.avianbiotech.com/Index.htm

It would be fascinating to have the results of a lab test!!!