Crevecoeur with Lymphoma (5 week old pullet)

JennyHeidewald

Songster
6 Years
May 27, 2019
252
781
221
Prescott Valley, AZ
I thought I would post this here because when I was looking for information on what was wrong with my little baby (5 weeks old), I searched for days and had to look at cat pictures to figure it out.
Saturday before last I heard distress peeps and a chick running to the corners of the tent (I use it as my brooder, if you do this be sure to trim all threads, and keep checking for them) I reached in thinking it was the little red frizzle that had been picked on a bit. To my surprise, it was my girl Crevecoeur. I looked to see what was the matter and, "Your eyes look like a bugs!"
1IMG_9837buggaboo.jpg
They were both enlarged, left eye larger than the right, and I guessed she'd been pecked by another chick. She has vision in the right eye, is eating and pooping well, and a lot. I waited to see if the swelling went down by next morning. No dice. So I started terramycin (got at Tractor Supply Company, it is about $15 a tube). It is hard holding a chick trying to get that gel in the eye, so in hindsight I probably didn't get enough in the eye.
FF to Thursday, no change in eye, except now there is a bit of pus in the crack of her eye lids. Worried that the med isn't working (I thought they were supposed to work in a few days)
Friday, left eye is way larger, alarmingly so. When she opens it I could really see it looked liquid filled. Right eye larger as well, and still cloudy, but she can still see a bit, still eating really well. Moves around slow and careful.

I search and search...Most stuff is about bubbly eyes, or swollen head, or eye worms. I finally find on here a thread about a chicken that had glaucoma, and the picture shows the eye looking like my little Buggaboo's. It is SO frustrating how many threads never conclude, please come back and tell us WHAT your chicken had! The chicken had been brought to a vet school, "She'd had Glaucoma" I guessed from the "had that the hen had been put down. :(
I looked to see what could be done, drops or surgery (yikes). I called the vet to see if they could give me something over the counter, no luck, needed prescription. This was about 20 min before they closed (I found out late in the day), and the chicken Dr. was booked up all tomorrow, being the only Dr. in (Memorial holiday weekend). I asked if I came in right then if Dr. could see her, and receptionist said yes .
"What is your chicken's name?"
Me:"Uhhhh, I haven't named her yet...ummm...Buggaboo."
I didn't even change out of my chicken clothes or put on makeup before I left, just grabbed wallet, keys and chick! (Chino Valley Animal Hospital, Dr. Siens is the chicken Dr. She is a great vet, really caring and sensitive, she has chickens herself. Helped me with the 6 yo Australorp that got sick and we had to put down after 5 weeks of nursing. I was so happy she was the one there.)

I only waited about 5 min. Dr. Siens did an eye pressure test, and I think she said the left eye pressure was 32, and the right eye was 12 (which I think is probably still high). She took some of the pus that had accumulated and is going to send it for testing. Said yes, glaucoma. Options, try eye drops and antibiotics to see if it brings the swelling down, or surgery. Removing the eye is $600 - $700 ish, she said she could probably do both eyes for that, but they said they were estimating high, so there wouldn't be any " and add this much more..." She didn't want to take one eye out and then have to take the other too, so we are waiting to see. Gave me a script for two things, and gave me antibiotic drops. (It is really hard to find hypertonic Saline 2%, the third pharmacy had it, owner said it doesn't move much. $25 a bottle. Ouch.)
I have been doing the drops for two and a half days now, they are every 12 hours, 15 minutes between drops. With her crest it is hard to get them in there at times. I think her left eye is looking a bit better, and the right, I am not sure. I have had to take pus out each time.

This is the cockerel Crevecoeur I have as an example of what the eye is supposed to look like: LeftEye.jpg
Here is Buggaboo 5/25/2019: IMG_0133.JPG IMG_0138.JPG
5/26/12019 AM: IMG_0148.JPG IMG_0151.JPG
The eye crud before I cleaned it: IMG_0157.JPG

I really hope the drops work, I can't afford the eye surgery. If they eventually have to take both eyes anyways, I know there are special needs chickens that get along just fine (more power to them), but I am of the mind what kind of life is that for a chicken. My husband and I already nursed one chicken for 5 weeks that couldn't see, and it was about impossible to get her to eat anything, I am not confident in my ability to tube feed. :(

Crevecoeurs are a crested chicken, and on the critical list, meaning there are about 500 breeding pairs, and 5 or less places breeding them (50 or more chickens to count). I wasn't planning on getting them but the Tractor Supply Company in Flagstaff, AZ had them, and there was a buy one get one deal that day only (I was in town for another reason). My Buggaboo was a pasty butt when I picked her out, and I kept her instead of picking another, because I didn't want her to stay in that tub.
IMG_8065.JPG
 
Poor little thing. That eye looks really bad. If you have trouble getting the drops in I'd have somebody else hold her, use one hand to hold her head and the other hand to deliver the drops. If there's nobody around to help you, I'd wrap her tightly in a towel to keep her from moving, hold her with your thighs and then hold her head in one hand and give drops with the other.

My grandma has glaucoma, and I can vouch that those drops have kept her from going blind for years now. Just gotta be consistent.

Really hoping Buggaboo pulls through. She's such a cutie. It was nice of you to save her from the bin. :fl

I know you said you can't afford the surgery anyway, so it's kind of a moot point, but I'd just get the bad eye taken if it comes to it. The other one looks like it could recover and still give her partial vision.
 
Poor little thing. That eye looks really bad. If you have trouble getting the drops in I'd have somebody else hold her, use one hand to hold her head and the other hand to deliver the drops. If there's nobody around to help you, I'd wrap her tightly in a towel to keep her from moving, hold her with your thighs and then hold her head in one hand and give drops with the other.

My grandma has glaucoma, and I can vouch that those drops have kept her from going blind for years now. Just gotta be consistent.

Really hoping Buggaboo pulls through. She's such a cutie. It was nice of you to save her from the bin. :fl

I know you said you can't afford the surgery anyway, so it's kind of a moot point, but I'd just get the bad eye taken if it comes to it. The other one looks like it could recover and still give her partial vision.

Thanks for the towel advice, I don't think I get them in the towel quite right and I am afraid they will hurt themselves with the struggling. I tried once with her, what a fuss, and she managed to thrash her way free ( too small of a towel)! I managed to get her on her side once, and that was a struggle, but made it easier. I don't know how others can get their chicken to be on its side without a whole lot of drama from the chicken!

I'd thought her eye looked better, but now I am not sure again, it is still pretty cloudy on the right(better) one, and still enlarged on the left. I was hoping I'd see a difference in a few days, but maybe it takes longer. I'm sad and torn about the surgery, she is such a lively bird, even with reduced vision.

What did the vet say about the pus in the eyes?
Does she have mucous in the nostrils too or is that just the color of them?

Vet said that she was going to get it sent out to see what sort of infection we were dealing with, but gave me an antibiotic to hit it hard with. No mucus in the beak, She has a black and yellow one. No sneezing or dripping or any respiratory issues.
 
Thanks for the towel advice, I don't think I get them in the towel quite right and I am afraid they will hurt themselves with the struggling. I tried once with her, what a fuss, and she managed to thrash her way free ( too small of a towel)! I managed to get her on her side once, and that was a struggle, but made it easier. I don't know how others can get their chicken to be on its side without a whole lot of drama from the chicken!

I'd thought her eye looked better, but now I am not sure again, it is still pretty cloudy on the right(better) one, and still enlarged on the left. I was hoping I'd see a difference in a few days, but maybe it takes longer. I'm sad and torn about the surgery, she is such a lively bird, even with reduced vision.



Vet said that she was going to get it sent out to see what sort of infection we were dealing with, but gave me an antibiotic to hit it hard with. No mucus in the beak, She has a black and yellow one. No sneezing or dripping or any respiratory issues.
Well, part of what makes wrapping the chicken in a towel effective is that you can drape it over their head so it's dark. This helps to calm them down. This won't really work for you though since the eyes are the part you need to work on. Tough break on that one. :(

I got some Rescue Remedy for pets on amazon. I have no idea if it works or not (never used it myself) but it's supposed to calm pets down and might make treating her easier.

My friend who owns chickens told me that her vet suggests turning the chicken on its back like a baby and hold it that way. It'll struggle a lot in the beginning but then should calm down. Have your husband/helper person hold her like that and then you can see to her eyes.

Glad she doesn't have any respiratory issues at least. I'd just keep on with the meds. The eyes are pretty bad. I'd imagine it'll take a week or two for them to be better. Maybe longer for the really bad eye.

I'm really pulling for you and her. I'm so glad you're trying so hard to help her. :hugs
 
Sorry your little girl is having this problem! You've certainly done your homework, and are doing everything you can to pull her through. I have to support you on not requiring her to live blind. For a prey animal, unless you were to have her with you in the house, that could be a confusing and frightening life, and she will not b able to defend herself. And as for eating and drinking, she would have competition.. Blind dogs can just stick their noses in their food bowl and do fine, but chickens need to pick up tiny bits with a pointy bill. And I know this will sound harsh, but if you were to donate even a tiny bit of that potential vet bill cost to a rescue, via a spay program you could prevent litters of kittens from being killed, or help a sanctuary shelter unwanted roosters, etc. and save her the pain of an enucleation. Glaucoma is normally genetic--if the drops help, she should NOT be bred. I hope the drops work for you, and all this is moot. If the drops do work, however, know that you can't stop them. Ever. Not even for two weeks when you go on vacation. Glaucoma isn't cured, it is controlled. Human have the option of a small eye surgery to make a hole in the iris, but chickens don't. Double check all this with a vet for accuracy, and then you can make an informed decision. I wish the very best for you and your hen.
 
Well, part of what makes wrapping the chicken in a towel effective is that you can drape it over their head so it's dark. This helps to calm them down. This won't really work for you though since the eyes are the part you need to work on. Tough break on that one. :(

I got some Rescue Remedy for pets on amazon. I have no idea if it works or not (never used it myself) but it's supposed to calm pets down and might make treating her easier.

My friend who owns chickens told me that her vet suggests turning the chicken on its back like a baby and hold it that way. It'll struggle a lot in the beginning but then should calm down. Have your husband/helper person hold her like that and then you can see to her eyes.

Glad she doesn't have any respiratory issues at least. I'd just keep on with the meds. The eyes are pretty bad. I'd imagine it'll take a week or two for them to be better. Maybe longer for the really bad eye.

I'm really pulling for you and her. I'm so glad you're trying so hard to help her. :hugs
Thank you, I did put her on her side the one morning, she didn't like that one bit, but once she calmed down it was way easier to put the drop in. Go figure that both times I need to treat chickens it is always an eye thing, so the towel trick won't work. Almost wish all I had to deal with was bumble foot (haven't yet, but I am sure I will)...this stuff where I don't know what it is, or it could be many things, it is hard trying to decide what to do.

Sorry your little girl is having this problem! You've certainly done your homework, and are doing everything you can to pull her through. I have to support you on not requiring her to live blind. For a prey animal, unless you were to have her with you in the house, that could be a confusing and frightening life, and she will not b able to defend herself. And as for eating and drinking, she would have competition.. Blind dogs can just stick their noses in their food bowl and do fine, but chickens need to pick up tiny bits with a pointy bill. And I know this will sound harsh, but if you were to donate even a tiny bit of that potential vet bill cost to a rescue, via a spay program you could prevent litters of kittens from being killed, or help a sanctuary shelter unwanted roosters, etc. and save her the pain of an enucleation. Glaucoma is normally genetic--if the drops help, she should NOT be bred. I hope the drops work for you, and all this is moot. If the drops do work, however, know that you can't stop them. Ever. Not even for two weeks when you go on vacation. Glaucoma isn't cured, it is controlled. Human have the option of a small eye surgery to make a hole in the iris, but chickens don't. Double check all this with a vet for accuracy, and then you can make an informed decision. I wish the very best for you and your hen.

Thank you for your words, it's helpful to know all that. It is a hard choice to make, but you are right, it really would be scary for her. Already she is a bit scared I think. I try to talk to her a lot, and especially before I have to handle her, so she knows I am there. I agree about the funds, use it for other animals to have a better life ( mostly my roosters, I eventually want to make a bachelor run).
I was indeed wondering about those drops for glaucoma, glad to have it confirmed that I'd have to keep going on them. I don't think Buggaboo would like that sort of life either, I already feel bad about wrangling her for eyedrops, worried about the additional stress i am putting on her to try and help her.

I don't see improvement in the eyes so far (photo attached was from this morning, I take one every morning to send to my vet):
5.29.2019BuggabooTwo.jpg
Vet conferred with an avian pathologist today who saw photos of Buggaboo. He said that it looks like there is an infection behind the eye pushing it out. Vet said that in that case the eye drops wouldn't help (can't get to the infection), but since it isn't getting worse that they must be helping with the pressure a bit.
This reminded me of something a nice lady by the name of Tracie Riggs on the FB BYC forum was telling me about: "Is it just swelling or are you seeing any of the yellow buildup? We had a turkey with a similar issue. He ended up having a gram negative infection. We had his eye removed as it was completely compromised at that point and he recovered. The vet had to scrape out the infection though. we needed up doing s full round of oral antibiotics. The eye gel didn’t work. The infection got behind the eye and was pushing it out"

Vet mentioned it could be a microplasma infection, I asked how Buggaboo could have gotten it, vet said from where she came from. I am not exactly sure where TSC in Flag got her, but Vet said that her fellow chickmate probably has it as well, it shows up when the chick is stressed (like if it was a peck to the eye). Also that it is super contagious, so if it really is that, it is good that Buggaboo doesn't have sneezing or diarrhea ( she still has great appetite ). I have her out from the other chicks but in the same room (because I need to finish space for the Tent chicks, and the weather hasn't been so nice, so cold at night. Supposed to be warmer by now!) Tomorrow I will find out how much the test is to find out what the infection is.
 
Update: When I called to find out how much the test was the receptionist didn't have a clue what I was talking about, so she left a note for Dr. Seins to call me. Spent all day waiting, rather anxiously, because if the test didn't go out that day it would be Friday it was shipped...and I didn't know if some lab folks worked on the weekend. For a ten day test, getting it there before the weekend is critical!
Anyways, she did call me around 7 (they get busy), said asked if anyone had told what happened, (No) they had just sent it out. The one test was to be about $77, and the other, "BACTERIAL AEROBIC CULTURE $34.75"
Results we got back: "Very low numbers of Staphylococcus xylosis and mixed flora recovered from sample submitted. No primary pathogens detected."
Still waiting for the one that takes ten days, should be done Sunday, but my vet is out for grand jury duty M-T-W. :/ She'd called me Thursday, and said she hoped they are doing the other test as she'd asked, they had said they would, but I haven't gotten a notice of how much it is, so we wonder. Though with the last one they sent the "this is not a bill, but this is how much it will be" notice with the test results.

Eye drops don't seem to be doing anything, her eyes looks a bit worse (right eye is cloudier it seems), and I think her sight is deteriorated.
We decided to stop the saline 2% drops (which were supposed to clear up the cloudiness), and after Sunday stop the $65 drops (she kept rattling off the names, but I know them by " first drops", "saline drops" and "red cap $65 drops"). I have to get up around 4 AM to get her drops in before going to work (gotta wait 15 minutes in between each med), due to working ten hour days (and the commute) I am an hour late for the "put drops in every 12 hours".

Buggaboo is still eating and pooping well, but has a harder time finding the food. Dr. Seins and I discussed oral antibiotics, which might be better for getting at any infection (She said "Woah, that one is $65! We'll look for a different one" I said,"The one eyedrop were $65..." "I'm sorry (it was so much), you really love your birds.") We are waiting for the results of the second test though, because there isn't really much point in just throwing any antibiotic at it not knowing if it will help or not. At this point though, I don't think she will be able to recover, the eye is probably irreparably damaged. I am sad about it, this bird has been growing on me, and I don't know if I will ever run across another store having a Crevecoeur. After I researched the breed, I was shocked TSC had them in the first place.


5/30/2019: 5.30.19Buggaboo.jpg

6/3/2019: Buggaboo6.3.2019.jpg
6/6/2019: 6.6.2019Buggaboo.jpg
 

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