Critque 2yro RPSI gelding

[helmstead]

I'd flip him. For that low price, you can EASILY at minimum train him for open hunters/low jumpers and turn him at $30-40k by the time he's 6 or 7 with proper campaigning. That would open your purse strings for a more suitable jumper prospect later on.

Very seriously, even with a 2 year old - if you find a really good one you're going to spend well over $10k. Diamonds in the rough aren't much of a reality at the upper levels. Maybe once a blue moon.

The boarding thing is a biggie, tho. Course, you're really just looking at pasture board for the next 2 years until he's ready to get serious, but still...big decision. It's not so profitable to flip when you're boarding.

 

[Equest94]

^^^ Yeah that's the thing about our barn...it's a show barn, but it's pretty small - there's no official pasture board... paddocks are only suitable for turn out and each horse is on a rotation for time outside, so I would end up paying full board anyways.

Plus, my farrier isn't too keen on him either after seeing those pictures... he thinks that his front right looks the worst and is a bit clubbed - of course without seeing him in person, he can't tell whether it's due to bad trimming or if it's a tendon/ligament issue...

 

[patandchickens]

Unfortunately it very seldom makes sense to try to do long-term for-profit projects if you're paying board on the horse. (Even short-term ones can be risky/costly if there is a delay in selling the horse.... ask me how I know

) In this case, the original poster would spend at LEAST, what, 5k/year for 3-5 years before the horse is really worth much more than she pays for him, and even then, chances are good that she'd at best make only a small profit, set against the (in my opinion considerable) chance that he ends up insufficiently sound and you LOSE ALL THE MONEY YOU PUT INTO HIM. Obviously that could happen with any horse but a poorly-constructed long-term project is sort of a riskiest-possible scenario if you ask me.

Also, I know that this is *heavily* a minority viewpoint in the horse industry today (emphasis on "industry", ahem) but I do not think it is ethical to train a horse for a strenuous discipline when he gives you serious structural reasons to doubt he'll stay sound, UNLESS (perhaps) one is fully willing to either give him a good happy retirement yourself for as long as he lives, or take whatever major financial loss is required to find someone else who'll retire him happily.

I know it's a pain in the butt looking for affordable talent

Equest94, since you're boarding, have you worked out the financial end of looking at 2 yr olds vs 3-4 yr olds. Not just the money you put into the horse while it stands around maturing enough to actually start, but the associated risk (given the ease with which a $20k horse can suddenly depreciate into a $2-5k one with just one Bad Idea in the paddock or bit of bad luck). If it is a lack of cash up front situation, could you find someone who'd let you do payments, or just work with someone else's horse while you save up 'your' board money til you do have more cash to plunk down? Of course if a really spectacular good-idea 2 yr old comes along at an amazingly low price you might be fine buying him and paying board for a few years... but generally people end up spending more money on less horse that way. Just a thought,

Good luck,

Pat

 

[Equest94]

^^^ I have had many project horses in the past - all of which I boarded and was able to sell for a decent profit (I guess I was/am having a lucky streak in the horse business); however, all of them have been "safe" projects - no major confo faults, etc... none as bad as this guy at least. I have worked with babies and with older horses - I have never sold a horse for more than it was really worth... hence, I am picky when it comes to choosing a project horse... they "have to work out" to some degree... (which is a risky notion all in it's self)

I like to say I am a very fair and reasonable horsewoman. When I show and train, I am sure not to push the horse past their actual capabilities. I have more respect for the animals I work with... I see them all as deserving a good home and if I cannot sell them I am willing to accommodate to their needs and take on the responsibility/pay extra money to keep them (although I never had to yet).

I am looking for a reasonable Show Jumping prospect - one who can potentially make it to the top... I just feel that this guy is 50%/50%...he can end up going either way - it's hard to tell since he's still growing, but worse case scenario - what happens if his legs never straighten out, or, as you mentioned, if he develops some injury/issue that hinders his capability to perform (I mean this can happen with any horse with "perfect" confo, why risk it more with something with less then good confo?)...he's a gelding - I can't breed him. Looking at a business stand point...there's a huge chance I will be losing money with him. I'd be paying all this money for a big grand ol' Warmblood trail horse/pasture ornament...

Knowing this risk before hand, I feel it would be almost crazy to consider him at this point. Financially I can afford to purchase, board, train, etc, but if by chance he didn't cut out or isn't capable of really doing anything, thus affecting my ability to sell him, it would be big for me. As I have said, I am willing to keep any horse that I get and who does not sell, but I'm still in college and this horse stuff is helping me pay off my loans...so to lose on this would be pretty bad... (Like, I'd be able to get by fine...but I just really want to pay off my debts soon as possible.)


There will be many other opportunities for me... there are many other horses out there... who knows, maybe if he's still for sale in a few months, I'll re-look into him - see if he improved much...

 

[Stormhorse23]

Ok, you can easily disregard this as I've never had a horse with good confo in my entire life....

I don't think it matters as much as the bond. If you have a good bond, you have a good horse. Any of you ever seen Big Ben (I think that's his name)? Ugly little showjumper that kicks butt. And since bond matters, it's best to wait until that one that really has "spark" jumps at you. Second best horse I've ever had (next to Stormy, of course) came as one we thought was a mule at an auction....yes, she was a quarter horse and looked like a mule her whole life until she got into some kind of poison that caused her kidneys to fail and we lost her at age 4. My sister was SIX and could ride circles around other kids on this filly.

Just wait and see, you'll find yourself a project....

 

[Equest94]

^^^Yeah, I already have a mare that I will never sell. We have been together through so much and she is the 1st horse I have ever officially owned. I had her since she was 5, she's going to be 14 this Saturday.

Talking about a project horse - bond plays an important role especially in training a baby, they have to learn to trust their handler, they have to trust what you are asking of them during ground training, and they have to trust you before you can swing your leg over their back fort he first time; however, a project horse usually means you buy, you work with, and you sell [for a profit] - the bond you make with this type of horse is more "generic;" you want them to learn to trust in general...you're not bonding as if you were keeping the horse for life; you allow yourself to let go - If I didn't, I'd have well over 300 horses by now, lol!

As for looks - looks don't matter. I have found, trained, and showed many "ugly" horses; however, when training for upper level jumpers, conformation does play a large role. If you are going to ask a horse to jump a 5ft+ oxer with a 10ft+ spread you want to make sure that that horse is going to hold up. I agree that a bond plays a huge role, but some people also take advantage of that and work their horses to the ground or push them until they break just because the horse is trying so hard to please their person that they don't know their limits. People like that p!ss me off.

I understand that show jumping is a very strenuous discipline; that's why it's all the more important that I have a structurally sound (and mentally sound) mount.

[ Hey, if those legs are going to sail me over that fence, they better be strong enough to safely carry me down.]

 

[Rare Feathers Farm]

Quote:
Is this directed at me?

 

[Equest94]

^^^ I don't think so... I just assumed she was talking about the gelding I'm asking about. He's a bit thin due to the hay issue.

 

[bluerose]

I will disagree (again) about his fetlocks/pasterns.

They WILL (unless he is truly deformed which I doubt) become more normal WITH A DECENT TRIM.

"Clubby"... farrier BS... it's UPRIGHT. Most every horse has an upright foot. Fixable with a good trim.

I say this with the confidence that I do because I have seen feet and pasterns fix themselves in 3-4 trims... on my own horses... my own trims. (Faster with a more experienced trimmer on the job- sometimes ONE trim and the problem is mostly solved.)

One of mine had one very upright foot (farrier refused to do anything about it, it was 'clubby' after all and just 'how it grew'

) and one very underrun foot... the underrun foot's leg was WAY out behind the heel of the foot... and yes, she had multiple minor suspensory issues in that leg.

It is now BEAUTIFULLY underneath her leg (pretty close to ideal) and the upright foot is nearly normal (and is also properly beneath her leg instead of behind it like it used to be).

It IS very much a trim issue. I see it every day. Farriers usually don't know how to fix it... they hide behind 'it's how s/he was made' and slap a shoe on top to 'fix' it. Or, even worse, TRY TO MATCH THE 'GOOD' FOOT to the 'clubby' one. Frequently by wedge pads (which I have only ever seen ruin horses, oftentimes permanently).



The boarding issue can be a difficult one, especially with a resale prospect. Is there another facility where you could put him out for a year or two where he'd be out with other babies? Maybe poke around, talk to breeders, see if they'd let you board with their youngsters. You may have some luck.

 

[Rare Feathers Farm]

Quote:
Oh okay. **unzips flame suit** I was 'bouts to get all defensive of my growing baby!

Thanks!