Crossing my Red Ranger Hens.

[Compost King]

@Compost King when do you start hatching out eggs from your rangers? How long do you wait, age wise? I tried with my 9/10mo Marans and the chicks were much smaller than the ones from the older girls. But I’m worried that every week brings these little bowling ball hens closer to a heart attack! I can’t wait until they are laying and I can put them on a layer feed with lower fat and protein content.

If I recall I waited about a month or 2 before I started breeding them, The incubator was occupied with other eggs at the time. I would have been willing to hatch them right away. Since the yolks are smaller the chicks will be smaller when they come out.. if it leads to less meat on the bones come processing time then it means they ate less so It wouldn't phase me. As far as using them as breeders, just because they were stunted at hatch due to a small yolk they still have the same genetics they would have if they came out of a larger egg so that wouldn't be an issue either. But if you want to wait to make sure you have a large bird then wait about a month because that's how long it take for their eggs to size out. I only have 2 Red Ranger Hens and their eggs started out normal sized. a year later one of them has a giant egg. It seems every time she lays an egg its slightly larger than the last one.

 

[Kris5902]

If I recall I waited about a month or 2 before I started breeding them, The incubator was occupied with other eggs at the time. I would have been willing to hatch them right away. Since the yolks are smaller the chicks will be smaller when they come out.. if it leads to less meat on the bones come processing time then it means they ate less so It wouldn't phase me. As far as using them as breeders, just because they were stunted at hatch due to a small yolk they still have the same genetics they would have if they came out of a larger egg so that wouldn't be an issue either. But if you want to wait to make sure you have a large bird then wait about a month because that's how long it take for their eggs to size out. I only have 2 Red Ranger Hens and their eggs started out normal sized. a year later one of them has a giant egg. It seems every time she lays an egg its slightly larger than the last one.

Thanks! Very grateful for your experience with these birds, and you’ve still got 1 more RR than I do (out of 40 chicks!) I’ve read on other threads about not hatching out pullet eggs and waiting until a hen is 1 year before hatching her eggs. I don’t know how long these girls will make it though. I’m hopeful, but boy are they large, especially the CX! My two Marans from “young eggs” from my last batch are starting to catch up a little in size to their hatch mate, but I’ve been unsure about longer term effects, and the hatch rate on those eggs was 28% compared to 80% with eggs from 18mo hens in the same incubator. But the rangers are an altogether “different” chicken in most aspects!

I’m less worried about market size at first for this cross, as I’m looking mostly for hold backs for breeding and maybe keeping two of the roosters as well.
BVxRR= BR BVxCX=BC
BRxBR= Shows a recessive dwarf gene?
BCxBC= Shows a recessive dwarf gene?
BRXBC= Shows a recessive dwarf gene?
As if there is a recessive dwarfism Gene it might be tied to a different gene in the Rangers than the CX so...
Then back crossing those BR and BC girls back to their Barnvelder Father, or if I can get my hands on a solid DP or heritage meat breed... or maybe the boys back to their mothers.

I have a feeling this is going to be a lifelong tinkering process to get a nice repeatable result. Chicken math, the hatching bug, and an interest in genetics... sigh, it was a lot simpler working with plants, they mature faster and you can always take cuttings to maintain the pure lines and propagate desirable traits, but the chickens are mischievous cuter (especially the small fluffy ones!)

 

[BlueBaby]

@Kris5902 I don't blame you for waiting until the egg layer has been laying for a few month's. I do the same, because I want to see what size egg and the shape of the one's that she lay's. On my Tan NN egg's I am only hatching the best size and shaped egg's. I do have another NN project going that I am trying to make a NN blue/green egg layer. I'm more of a hobby breeder though, and not big like you are in taking them to market.

 

[Ridgerunner]

when do you start hatching out eggs from your rangers? How long do you wait, age wise? I tried with my 9/10mo Marans and the chicks were much smaller than the ones from the older girls. But I’m worried that every week brings these little bowling ball hens closer to a heart attack! I can’t wait until they are laying and I can put them on a layer feed with lower fat and protein content.

I don't raise meat birds or meat bird crosses, just my own mix of dual purpose chickens. Since I play with genetics, I often hatch pullet eggs instead of waiting a year. The egg laying process is pretty complicated and things have to be pretty close to right for an egg to hatch. A pullet just starting to lay may have trouble getting all the kinks out of her internal egg-making factory. That's not just the weird things you often see with pullet eggs, it could be things internal you con't see. Usually they work these things out in a couple of weeks. To me it is kind of amazing how many get it right to start with.

The first eggs are really small, but they should rapidly get bigger. The genetics are going to be the same but there aren't enough nutrients or room in those small eggs for the chicks to get very big before hatch. To be honest I have not noticed if those chicks that hatch small catch up or are forever stunted. For my purposes it's not that important but I think they catch up.

One example of problems with the eggs being small and the pullet working things out, the pullet is going to make a certain amount of shell material. If the egg is small that shell may be so thick the chick has trouble getting out. But as the egg gets bigger the shell gets thinner.

One year I had two pullets laying when I collected hatching eggs. They had both been laying about a month. I could tell which pullet laid which egg by color. I got 5 put of 6 chicks from one pullet's eggs, I got 0 out of 5 from the other pullet. Those eggs didn't even start to develop. I think that pullet had not matured enough to squat for the rooster and he didn't chase her down. It's not just the physical size of the pullets, it's also their behaviors.

I typically wait at least a moth after a pullet starts to lay before I set her eggs. I usually get pretty good hatch rates, though the pullet eggs sometimes have a slightly lower hatch rate than regular eggs. Most chicks I hatch live and thrive, though I've notice that if one does die in the first couple of weeks it is usually one from a small pullet egg. If I can get them past two weeks they do fine.

I don't know what happened with your Marans. Usually by 9 to 10 months the eggs are no different in hatchability or survival than mature hens' eggs. Are you sure it was not something else rather than the pullets' age?

In your situation I'd be hatching pullet eggs. I'm not sure I'd wait a month with the risk of the pullets dying, though I probably would. So what if you don't get a great hatch rate. Just getting some to hatch is a win. Those that tell you to wait a year are not breeding for your goals. For example, if you are evaluating them for show potential or for egg laying, there can be huge advantages in waiting. But those are not your goals. Don't let the pursuit of perfection get in the way of good enough.

 

[Kris5902]

I don't raise meat birds or meat bird crosses, just my own mix of dual purpose chickens. Since I play with genetics, I often hatch pullet eggs instead of waiting a year. The egg laying process is pretty complicated and things have to be pretty close to right for an egg to hatch. A pullet just starting to lay may have trouble getting all the kinks out of her internal egg-making factory. That's not just the weird things you often see with pullet eggs, it could be things internal you con't see. Usually they work these things out in a couple of weeks. To me it is kind of amazing how many get it right to start with.

The first eggs are really small, but they should rapidly get bigger. The genetics are going to be the same but there aren't enough nutrients or room in those small eggs for the chicks to get very big before hatch. To be honest I have not noticed if those chicks that hatch small catch up or are forever stunted. For my purposes it's not that important but I think they catch up.

One example of problems with the eggs being small and the pullet working things out, the pullet is going to make a certain amount of shell material. If the egg is small that shell may be so thick the chick has trouble getting out. But as the egg gets bigger the shell gets thinner.

One year I had two pullets laying when I collected hatching eggs. They had both been laying about a month. I could tell which pullet laid which egg by color. I got 5 put of 6 chicks from one pullet's eggs, I got 0 out of 5 from the other pullet. Those eggs didn't even start to develop. I think that pullet had not matured enough to squat for the rooster and he didn't chase her down. It's not just the physical size of the pullets, it's also their behaviors.

I typically wait at least a moth after a pullet starts to lay before I set her eggs. I usually get pretty good hatch rates, though the pullet eggs sometimes have a slightly lower hatch rate than regular eggs. Most chicks I hatch live and thrive, though I've notice that if one does die in the first couple of weeks it is usually one from a small pullet egg. If I can get them past two weeks they do fine.

I don't know what happened with your Marans. Usually by 9 to 10 months the eggs are no different in hatchability or survival than mature hens' eggs. Are you sure it was not something else rather than the pullets' age?

In your situation I'd be hatching pullet eggs. I'm not sure I'd wait a month with the risk of the pullets dying, though I probably would. So what if you don't get a great hatch rate. Just getting some to hatch is a win. Those that tell you to wait a year are not breeding for your goals. For example, if you are evaluating them for show potential or for egg laying, there can be huge advantages in waiting. But those are not your goals. Don't let the pursuit of perfection get in the way of good enough.

Thanks for all the great info! I love that you’ve all got so much experience and are so willing to share it with such a newbie like me, soon I will have had chickens for a full year! There’s so much information out there, and a good amount of it is conflicting, or not as applicable to what we are trying in crossing out the RR hybrids and CX. So many say “it’s not possible” then you have people who manage it, like with the TOADs. Gives me hope for starting with what I can get an going from there.

 

[Compost King]

Those that tell you to wait a year are not breeding for your goals. For example, if you are evaluating them for show potential or for egg laying, there can be huge advantages in waiting. But those are not your goals. Don't let the pursuit of perfection get in the way of good enough.

Ridgerunner has some of the best wisdom on BYC. I have noticed a common thread amongst some of the experts on BYC that they tell you what to do based on their goals. We do not all have the same goals. If I do something its because its what I feel is best for my goals which may not be best for yours. My only real goal, the one I need to meet is the making of compost. Everything else is educational and fun. I hatch mine early because the negatives of hatching early do not outweigh the positives. Also if it turns out that hatching early was a mistake I can just hatch out the later eggs too.
I too wonder if a stunted growth chick recovers with age, I never tracked them and I either sell them at POL or eat them at 5 pounds. Very few I keep to breed later or keep in a laying flock just because I liked them for one reason or another.

BVxRR= BR BVxCX=BC
BRxBR= Shows a recessive dwarf gene?
BCxBC= Shows a recessive dwarf gene?
BRXBC= Shows a recessive dwarf gene?
As if there is a recessive dwarfism Gene it might be tied to a different gene in the Rangers than the CX so...
Then back crossing those BR and BC girls back to their Barnvelder Father, or if I can get my hands on a solid DP or heritage meat breed... or maybe the boys back to their mothers.

About recessive Dwarf Genes... I am not sure what I will do with that if they exist in Red Rangers since I used Red Rangers to improve my dorking. So far I have not bred a Red Ranger Cross to another Red Ranger Cross. I am currently hatching out 1/4 Red Ranger birds, not just with the Dorkings either. I was reading Duluthralphies thread on his toad production and I haven't seen him mention anything about a recessive dwarf gene popping up. He Used Dixie Rainbows (similar to rangers) and CX. I guess I will find out the hard way about it.
As far as making my own eating birds I am not concerned about Dwarfism at all because they will still flesh out rapidly (I assume) but on a smaller frame so they will eat less to make up for having less frame to fill out. You however raise birds for a market so it might be an issue to you. I am concerned I will have to breed it out of the Dorkings if the Red Rangers have it. Maybe I will have to start all over on that project and use New Hampshire Reds from Freedom Ranger hatchery. Oh well, I will learn something if it all blows up in my face and I will still make an awful lot of compost. It would be nice to have at least one project work out though.

Even if there is a Dwarfism Gene and it comes out, maybe its something I can use to do something with... such as make bantam Dorkings or some other type of Novelty. What ever happens I will have fun learning.

 

[Kris5902]

Ridgerunner has some of the best wisdom on BYC. I have noticed a common thread amongst some of the experts on BYC that they tell you what to do based on their goals. We do not all have the same goals. If I do something its because its what I feel is best for my goals which may not be best for yours. My only real goal, the one I need to meet is the making of compost. Everything else is educational and fun. I hatch mine early because the negatives of hatching early do not outweigh the positives. Also if it turns out that hatching early was a mistake I can just hatch out the later eggs too.
I too wonder if a stunted growth chick recovers with age, I never tracked them and I either sell them at POL or eat them at 5 pounds. Very few I keep to breed later or keep in a laying flock just because I liked them for one reason or another.



About recessive Dwarf Genes... I am not sure what I will do with that if they exist in Red Rangers since I used Red Rangers to improve my dorking. So far I have not bred a Red Ranger Cross to another Red Ranger Cross. I am currently hatching out 1/4 Red Ranger birds, not just with the Dorkings either. I was reading Duluthralphies thread on his toad production and I haven't seen him mention anything about a recessive dwarf gene popping up. He Used Dixie Rainbows (similar to rangers) and CX. I guess I will find out the hard way about it.
As far as making my own eating birds I am not concerned about Dwarfism at all because they will still flesh out rapidly (I assume) but on a smaller frame so they will eat less to make up for having less frame to fill out. You however raise birds for a market so it might be an issue to you. I am concerned I will have to breed it out of the Dorkings if the Red Rangers have it. Maybe I will have to start all over on that project and use New Hampshire Reds from Freedom Ranger hatchery. Oh well, I will learn something if it all blows up in my face and I will still make an awful lot of compost. It would be nice to have at least one project work out though.

Even if there is a Dwarfism Gene and it comes out, maybe its something I can use to do something with... such as make bantam Dorkings or some other type of Novelty. What ever happens I will have fun learning.

Very good points! I agree, I’m mostly interested to see if there is indeed a Recessive gene in these lines for Dwarfism and how it might manifest from a curiosity standpoint. I feel like there’s going to be much note taking in my future once these gals start laying! I’m also hoping that the first cross will give better survivability than their mothers. Big Red is still my favorite of the 4 meat girls. She’s more interactive with me and slightly less food crazed than the 3 CX.

 

[aliciaplus3]

Thanks! Very grateful for your experience with these birds, and you’ve still got 1 more RR than I do (out of 40 chicks!) I’ve read on other threads about not hatching out pullet eggs and waiting until a hen is 1 year before hatching her eggs. I don’t know how long these girls will make it though. I’m hopeful, but boy are they large, especially the CX! My two Marans from “young eggs” from my last batch are starting to catch up a little in size to their hatch mate, but I’ve been unsure about longer term effects, and the hatch rate on those eggs was 28% compared to 80% with eggs from 18mo hens in the same incubator. But the rangers are an altogether “different” chicken in most aspects!

I’m less worried about market size at first for this cross, as I’m looking mostly for hold backs for breeding and maybe keeping two of the roosters as well.
BVxRR= BR BVxCX=BC
BRxBR= Shows a recessive dwarf gene?
BCxBC= Shows a recessive dwarf gene?
BRXBC= Shows a recessive dwarf gene?
As if there is a recessive dwarfism Gene it might be tied to a different gene in the Rangers than the CX so...
Then back crossing those BR and BC girls back to their Barnvelder Father, or if I can get my hands on a solid DP or heritage meat breed... or maybe the boys back to their mothers.

I have a feeling this is going to be a lifelong tinkering process to get a nice repeatable result. Chicken math, the hatching bug, and an interest in genetics... sigh, it was a lot simpler working with plants, they mature faster and you can always take cuttings to maintain the pure lines and propagate desirable traits, but the chickens are mischievous cuter (especially the small fluffy ones!)

Sounds like your interest mirror my own. I ended up with an unknown Large rooster that was given to me and managed to get several Solid roosters from his blood lines before he passed..... that is a Big part of what I am playing with. I currently have 4 of his boys strutting in breeding pens.... one Delaware mix(has Delaware markings), one cuckoo marans mix(typical black with white cuckoo coloring), a white Necked neck and a white tailed red Necked neck. Each one will father a different project and further my flock in a different direction.

 

[Compost King]

Sounds like your interest mirror my own. I ended up with an unknown Large rooster that was given to me and managed to get several Solid roosters from his blood lines before he passed..... that is a Big part of what I am playing with. I currently have 4 of his boys strutting in breeding pens.... one Delaware mix(has Delaware markings), one cuckoo marans mix(typical black with white cuckoo coloring), a white Necked neck and a white tailed red Necked neck. Each one will father a different project and further my flock in a different direction.

I love hearing about other people breeding for their meat birds. maybe someone here on BYC will make a new breed that revolutionizes back yard meat flocks

 

[Kris5902]

I love hearing about other people breeding for their meat birds. maybe someone here on BYC will make a new breed that revolutionizes back yard meat flocks

I think that’s what we are all looking for! My project is very much up in the air ATM but... who laid it? The CX or RR? 17 weeks old tomorrow and I got my first egg yesterday, and a soft shell today. Tim to switch the girls to layer and get a BF in with them! I’m flattered they think I’m their rooster, but I’m not going to be getting their eggs fertilized on my own so Tiny! next to my 9 mo old sapphire and a red hy-line egg with sharpie for perspective.

Step 1&2 complete!
1: get meat birds. RR and when they are almost all boys trade some dressed out ones for some live CX girls, cause it’s hard to start a breeding program with all boys!
2: diet and exercise and get them to laying age!
3: add rooster and wait (coming soon)
4: start hatching out F1 crosses! (The exciting part!)
5: repeat steps 3&4 until successful in having a “meaty” flock that can be sustained at home.