CSU - Chicken State University- Large Fowl SOP

[1MrsMagoo]

I am so glad you have decided to review. I have a few questions about a particular New Hampshire I would like to address. I recently participated in my first show and entered the Cock bird pictured below.

I had three males to choose from, and picked this one because of his body width and tail. His tail is nice and open and well colored and I was happy with his sickle feather. Plus, he has good coloring on his beak and legs, which does not translate over in the photos. His comb is nice, but I am not sure about its shape. However, I was mostly concerned with the way he holds his wings and almost didn't enter him because of this.

I am sorry that I don't have better photos, but the one on top is how he typically holds his wings: The photo on the bottom was taken on a very warm day, but gives you a nice side view of him.





Long story short he won Reserve Champion Large Fowl. I wanted to speak with the judge after the show to ask about what he saw in the bird so I could learn, but sadly he had to leave immediately afterward. So, I was wondering if anyone can tell me if his wings are okay?

I appreciate it.

 

[NanaKat]

I use hatching baskets made of hardware cloth. I thing they give the chicks more freedom of movement than sacks do. The sack is an additional barrier to overcome in addition to the shell.

Good idea.

I found these at the dollar store. I just slip them inside a hose protector. I can get 3 of them in my incubator. They come in a few different sizes.

In my Hovabator, the tall basket won't fit...so if i use the plastic I use the same type only shorter in height and slip them inside a onion bag. Also there are wire mesh office drawer baskets that are ready made and cheaper than the wire hardware cloth. I slip them inside a bag also. They have a mesh bottom which doesn't inhibit the humid air flow and are dishwasher safe.

Yellow leg color is due to pigment granules stored in the dermis, as opposed to permanant pigments. This pigment is mobilized by the hen as needed to color the egg yolks. Birds on diets high in carotenoid pigments mobilize less from their bodies, so retain more color. Poor layers use less pigment for eggs, so will also pull less from their body and have more yellow in the legs.

Exactly. This was one of the topics that was covered during our training as Livestock Leaders during my 4-H certification. It is more noticeable in production breeds, especially the White Leghorns and production brown egg layer strains, but the concept still applies to all breeds of chickens. It's one of the ways you can determine if a hen is a good layer or not, along with the other methods, including moist vent, width of pubic bones, and so on. See this link for specifics: http://extension.usu.edu/files/publications/publication/AG_Poultry_2009-01pr.pdf Note, it is more specific to the Mediterranean and Continental breeds, but the same concepts do hold true, to a certain extent, with the American breeds such as the Buckeye, and can be used along with the other criteria to judge if a hen is in lay or not.

My Columbian Wyandotte pullets and hens have yellow legs especially when they free range. Laying an average of four eggs a week, the leg color fades to cream when they begin molt while laying. Out of 75 CW chicks so far this year I have saved back 5 pullets and two cockerels. In another pen containing Black daughters from the CW rooster and a Blue hen, I am getting a small percentage of black chicks with yellow shanks and feet. These chicks will be allowed to reach 3 months before I first cull unless there are noticeable faults.

 

[NYREDS]

And make sure you make the sides high enough. Ask me how I know this...

Or you could make them with a top like I do.

 

[NYREDS]

I am so glad you have decided to review. I have a few questions about a particular New Hampshire I would like to address. I recently participated in my first show and entered the Cock bird pictured below.

I had three males to choose from, and picked this one because of his body width and tail. His tail is nice and open and well colored and I was happy with his sickle feather. Plus, he has good coloring on his beak and legs, which does not translate over in the photos. His comb is nice, but I am not sure about its shape. However, I was mostly concerned with the way he holds his wings and almost didn't enter him because of this.

I am sorry that I don't have better photos, but the one on top is how he typically holds his wings: The photo on the bottom was taken on a very warm day, but gives you a nice side view of him.





Long story short he won Reserve Champion Large Fowl. I wanted to speak with the judge after the show to ask about what he saw in the bird so I could learn, but sadly he had to leave immediately afterward. So, I was wondering if anyone can tell me if his wings are okay?

I appreciate it.

He looks a little loose-winged to me.

 

[1MrsMagoo]

He looks a little loose-winged to me.

That is what I thought, so have no idea what the judge saw in him? It was a small show (the club's first), but their were some VERY good Rhode Islands and Barred Rocks that have won other shows in the region there. I was at a complete loss as to why the judge placed him above those birds.

 

[Canieldonrad]

That is what I thought, so have no idea what the judge saw in him? It was a small show (the club's first), but their were some VERY good Rhode Islands and Barred Rocks that have won other shows in the region there. I was at a complete loss as to why the judge placed him above those birds.

Different judges have their tastes. You will have judges who favor different shades, different types and different weights.


For instance I recall a judge from our area who greatly favored darker colored birds. We had, for a time, Mottled Houdans. Which can tend to go heavy on the dark or light side at times. We had birds that were about right on mottled feathering that would generally place better at most shows. But the ones that had less mottle and were much darker always placed better under the certain judge. When he would judge silver-laced wyandottes with relatively little white as #1 birds as another example.

 

[HEChicken]

Yellow leg color is due to pigment granules stored in the dermis, as opposed to permanant pigments. This pigment is mobilized by the hen as needed to color the egg yolks. Birds on diets high in carotenoid pigments mobilize less from their bodies, so retain more color. Poor layers use less pigment for eggs, so will also pull less from their body and have more yellow in the legs.

I found this information very interesting. I am curious about the part about pulling the yellow color from the legs to color the yolks though. Hens that don't have yellow legs can still lay eggs with yolks that are just as yellow, so in their case, from where are they pulling the yellow?

 

[1MrsMagoo]

Different judges have their tastes. You will have judges who favor different shades, different types and different weights.


For instance I recall a judge from our area who greatly favored darker colored birds. We had, for a time, Mottled Houdans. Which can tend to go heavy on the dark or light side at times. We had birds that were about right on mottled feathering that would generally place better at most shows. But the ones that had less mottle and were much darker always placed better under the certain judge. When he would judge silver-laced wyandottes with relatively little white as #1 birds as another example.

That is the only thing I could surmise that had happened: He just likes the Orange birds. Thank you very much for your comment: I really do appreciate it!

 

[Canieldonrad]

I found this information very interesting. I am curious about the part about pulling the yellow color from the legs to color the yolks though. Hens that don't have yellow legs can still lay eggs with yolks that are just as yellow, so in their case, from where are they pulling the yellow?

I'm not an ornithologist, but I would dare say a bird uses carotenoids wherever available. This may be expressed in loss of skin pigment, this could be expressed in loss of leg pigment, or it could be expressed in loss of feather pigment(if they lay heavily around a molt. But I'm not sure. You will notice changes in yolk color with different feeds. So it could be many different factors, and one may even been shell color. In a bird such as an orpington where the legs are generally pale they may pull carotene out of their diet more often, or pull the carotene out of their flesh more often. Again, I am not a bird scientist, I just seem to have a hypothesis.

 

[MagicChicken]

OK, here we go... Black Java update. These birds are 15.5 weeks old. They came from Duane Urch as day-old chicks. I wound up with 15+ cockerels and 5 pullets. Eye color and foot color are problems in this flock. Black Java eyes are supposed to be dark. Out of 22 birds only two have dark eyes. The rest are some sort of light bay color. Black Javas are also supposed to have dark shanks and yellow soles. Complete absence of yellow in the feet is a disqualification. None of these birds has truly yellow soles. Several have faint yellow and would not be disqualified, but I will need to work on foot color once I've got the body shape down.

Here is a cockerel on the cull list. Note the hump in his back just behind his neck. Several of the cockerels have this hump. It is exaggerated in this photo due to his posture, but it is always there. A lot of the hump is feathers but his backbone does curve somewhat, following that line in a less exaggerated fashion. This "hump" looks worse than it is because this bird's hackle feathers are relatively thin at the nape of his neck - maybe because he is one of the more picked-upon birds. His hackle feathers may have been yanked out. He does have good size, a relatively deep chest and a reasonably long back. His tail is relatively pinched:





Another cockerel. This one has a slight convex curve to the back that I don't like (the backbone follows that curve, it is not just feathers), and his back is a little shorter than I would like. His wings seem a little low to me. He is hot in this photo, but he always holds his wings like that. They're not bad, just slightly lower than I would like. Maybe I am bothered by these wings because he has retained those white wing feathers so I notice them. I am hoping the white feathers molt out soon. His chest could be deeper (hard to see in this photo). His earlobes and wattles are a tad long. His shanks are too pale, and his eyes are light. Light eyes are a problem with most of the birds in my flock. Eyes should be dark:





The cockerel on the left has the broadest back and tail of any in the flock, but his back is too short. This is the guy who keeps mounting my boot. At least he is nice about it He will make the initial cut just because I like his wide back and tail. He may not make it into the breeding program due to the short back. The pullet on the right has a wider tail than most of the other pullets and does not have any sign of a "waist" or cushion development at this point. Some of the others do, and I do not want birds with cushions:





This is my favorite pullet, even though she is the smallest bird. She only weighed 2.5 pounds at 13 weeks. (Largest pullet weighed 3.5 pounds at 13 weeks.) I like her overall proportions. Her tail is almost as broad as her back. Her back seems about the right length for her size, and her keel depth is good. She has a more rounded head than the other pullets and she has that gentle facial expression I am looking for in a java. She is also the only dark-eyed pullet. She is standing at a slight angle in the photo. Her back does slope down slightly toward the rear when she is standing, which it is supposed to do. If I use her for breeding I am going to have to deal with the size issue. I am hoping she has a growth spurt before she matures:





Purple barring is an issue in literally all of these birds. They all have a green sheen, but they also all have varying degrees of purple barring. Purple barring is a defect in black birds. I am hoping it goes away by the time they are in adult plumage, but so far it has been persistent:




I am new at this chicken-evaluating business, so I would appreciate any feedback. Thanks!

Sarah