CSU - Chicken State University- Large Fowl SOP

[math ace]

she is the one on the left.

Howdy Vicki

Thank you for posting this picture.
Let's talk butts for a minute. I have birds with both types of feathering.
A lot of my marans have a butt like the one on the left. Some of my delawares have a butt like the one on the right.
I would like to know how each is described, which is preferred, and how big of a deal it is?

For example, the hen on the right has a tail feather that is crooked. I've got a couple of delawares with tails like that and it drives be nuts. Should it bother me that much in the big picture?

The hen on the left, has a very fluffy bottom. It reminds me of a sagging diaper. I do not mean that in a negative way. I am just trying to figure out what are expectations should be. Cleary, I won't see "sagging diaper" in the SOP... LOL... I am looking for terminology help and how much it too much? Is the fluffy bottom an indicator that the bird is wide through the pelvic area?

 

[gilavina]

Howdy Vicki

Thank you for posting this picture.
Let's talk butts for a minute. I have birds with both types of feathering.
A lot of my marans have a butt like the one on the left. Some of my delawares have a butt like the one on the right.
I would like to know how each is described, which is preferred, and how big of a deal it is?

For example, the hen on the right has a tail feather that is crooked. I've got a couple of delawares with tails like that and it drives be nuts. Should it bother me that much in the big picture?

The hen on the left, has a very fluffy bottom. It reminds me of a sagging diaper. I do not mean that in a negative way. I am just trying to figure out what are expectations should be. Cleary, I won't see "sagging diaper" in the SOP... LOL... I am looking for terminology help and how much it too much? Is the fluffy bottom an indicator that the bird is wide through the pelvic area?

Mornin Lady

I hope I'll make sense this AM, but did not sleep well at all, so hopefully someone will jump in if I forget something. The main difference to me is tightness of feathers. Having said that, I have the luxury of handling the birds on a consistent basis to know their structure well. In some cases it can be an indicator of a bird being overweight when the feathering appears more fluffy. I might be missing something, but on the bird on the right where you said they have a crooked tail feather, where are you talking about? Their tails aren't in the best of shape in this photo, so could just be condition too I suppose.
To me, I don't like overly fluffy birds, but will watch their overall type and shape to see if the pantaloons (what I call them cause they look like old time knickers kind of haha) are excessive or too tight. Its one of those things that can be bred for, some of my girls have looser and some have tighter feathering, so I just am careful about what offspring I hold back. Having said that, I don't like it when a bird is mostly bum fluff, it doesn't create good balance to me

 

[math ace]

Vicki,

What about this girl?
Personally, I would like to see her tail SLIGHTLY wider and the fluff SLIGHTLY tighter. However, I would have absolutely no problem using her just as she is.
What are your thoughts about this girls back end?

I deal with 3 breeds - Speckled Sussex, Marans, and Delawares.
What are your thoughts - SHOULD the butt view be about the same on all three breeds?

Also, How do you determine if a bird is big or just plain fat?

 

[math ace]

Vicki,

I uploaded one of my hen's photo. This is a delaware, but she illustrates that twisted tail feather that I was talking about.
Is this genetics or a structure issue? Could it even be a diet or environment issue that would resolve itself at the next molt? She would have a nice little teepee tail if the feather wasn't crooked.


Also, notice that my delaware hen has extra markings on the fluff under the teepee of the tail. I noticed your sussex hen had it too. If this considered a fault or DQ ( as in color in inappropriate place). How do we correct the issue in breeding? Do we just refuse to use any with the extra coloring? I would assume that a bird with too much color here would tend to have too much color on the hackle area too. If that is the case, would use this hen with a lighter colored male in hopes of balancing the color.

 

[math ace]

The questions above were directed at Vicki, but I am open to answers from anyone.

 

[fowlman01]

Howdy Vicki

Thank you for posting this picture.
Let's talk butts for a minute. I have birds with both types of feathering.
A lot of my marans have a butt like the one on the left. Some of my delawares have a butt like the one on the right.
I would like to know how each is described, which is preferred, and how big of a deal it is?

For example, the hen on the right has a tail feather that is crooked. I've got a couple of delawares with tails like that and it drives be nuts. Should it bother me that much in the big picture?

The hen on the left, has a very fluffy bottom. It reminds me of a sagging diaper. I do not mean that in a negative way. I am just trying to figure out what are expectations should be. Cleary, I won't see "sagging diaper" in the SOP... LOL... I am looking for terminology help and how much it too much? Is the fluffy bottom an indicator that the bird is wide through the pelvic area?

I am guessing that the one with the "sagging diaper" has a terrible underline at the rear of the bird. Any twisted tail feathers or wing feathers are a DQ.

Walt

 

[gilavina]

Vicki,

What about this girl?
Personally, I would like to see her tail SLIGHTLY wider and the fluff SLIGHTLY tighter. However, I would have absolutely no problem using her just as she is.
What are your thoughts about this girls back end?

I deal with 3 breeds - Speckled Sussex, Marans, and Delawares.
What are your thoughts - SHOULD the butt view be about the same on all three breeds?

Also, How do you determine if a bird is big or just plain fat?

I agree, her tail is not as open as I'd like and do like tighter feathered birds. That's the goal of the breeding program and have made pretty good strides in the last couple of years, but all a step at a time. What I like about her, is that her offspring have really nice width and nice breast development, so I'm working with what I've got since hardly anyone around here raises Sussex.
I usually just pick up a bird and feel them right behind the legs to the vent area and can usually tell if they are too fat because they are really hefty there and it will feel rather fatty and kind of squishy. I don't know how else to describe it really.

 

[gilavina]

Vicki,

I uploaded one of my hen's photo. This is a delaware, but she illustrates that twisted tail feather that I was talking about.
Is this genetics or a structure issue? Could it even be a diet or environment issue that would resolve itself at the next molt? She would have a nice little teepee tail if the feather wasn't crooked.


Also, notice that my delaware hen has extra markings on the fluff under the teepee of the tail. I noticed your sussex hen had it too. If this considered a fault or DQ ( as in color in inappropriate place). How do we correct the issue in breeding? Do we just refuse to use any with the extra coloring? I would assume that a bird with too much color here would tend to have too much color on the hackle area too. If that is the case, would use this hen with a lighter colored male in hopes of balancing the color.

I'll have to look over my birds again when they are done getting all their feathers in from their early molt and those that are broody to reassess what I have. I'd be curious to see what someone else has to say about the extra coloring and whether they should be used or if there is a correlation with overcoloring in the hackle area. The sussex are definitely a learning curve for me, so would love to learn as much as I can about them.

 

[3riverschick]

Quote: Hi,
Just to butt in. Light Sussex are an eWh based black and white Columbian. It doesn't work if one tries to use breeding advice for eb Columbian black and white based birds back and forth between the 2 locuses. eWh is pure which to the skin with no black in the white areas. eb based Columbians, depending on how the color balancing is done, can have black stippling in the white areas. They also need color balancing in the under fluff, unlike the eWh birds.

 

[3riverschick]

Quote:
" I like tight butts and I cannot lie....."