Cubalaya Thread For Sharing Pics and Discussing Our Birds

[gallorojo]

Ok so here is some China game fowl info:
http://www.feathersite.com/Poultry/Games/China/BRKChinaGame.html

http://ultimatefowl.wordpress.com/2008/11/30/china-game-fowl/

They are a "real" longtail breed in that they have the genetics for truely long saddle and tail feathers, and it appears multiple feathering as well. I've never worked with any myself, I have seen good ones in person though and they are beautiful. I think Saladin may have a few.

On a different topic, I saw some excellent Cubalayas shown today locally. One of the birds was out of Cubakids stock, and it was nice to see his work in something other than a picture.

 

[wood&feathers]

Thanks, that is where I saw them. I just haven't even heard anyone speculate on them. We had heard about everything mentioned, and I was surprised they hadn't been thrown in for discussion.

 

[cubalaya]

i wonder if salidan ever used them for grading. they are good sized, have long tails, oriental, healthy and vigorous. the bad side, they have green legs, their tail is kinda high, and they are not tame to humans but aggressive. the color is off a bit too

 

[gallorojo]

Many of the China games I see have white in the earlobes, and, just me personally, I would never ever use any breed as an outcross with even a hint of white in the lobes. That's just my opinion personally. I also think the true longtail genetics in some way shape or form always weaken the birds, or reduce muscle, depress the immune system, require special diets, etc. Yes, they make lovely birds, but I won't knowingly add anything that may be detrimental to vigor and productivity. The Cubalaya is no more a true longtail breed than a Leghorn is. If I take a tail feather from one of my Leghorns and one of my Cubalayas they are the exact same length. I don't see many if any Cubas with too short of tails, in my opinion that's not something that needs fixing. Sorry if this is rant like, I feel the way Saladin does about crossing Sumatras to Cubalayas, except my passionate " No Way" is any type of longtail breed.

 

[Oldhound]

My 2 Cents re Hainan Fowl (China Games) for crossing with Cubalayas . Not Wheaton , cocks average 4 to 4 1/2 pounds, too small, by 2 pounds. Not enough bone to carry the Type. Wrong Station, (posture). Some are Man Fighters( temperament ). Some white ear lobes which are plaguing Cubalayas as it is. Not many plus factors. They are however Not related to the Japanese Longtails which require special diets according to Literature. I was Soundly Corrected by a noted Satsumadori breeder ( who cited DNA evidence ) when I suggested that China Games were one of the breeds used to make Satsumadori, etc. I agree that it might be a lot of wasted effort by bringing in additional faults. JMO. I do admire the Hainan Fowl and they are on my someday " wishlist".

 

[Jungleexplorer]

I have a question. I have been thinking of asking it for some time, but never got around to it. There is something I just don't understand when it comes to the genes that control the coloring of chickens. Here is what I mean. I have both Cubayalas and AG's. As far as the coloring of the males goes the BBRed AG is very close to the BBRed Cubalaya.; but Cubalaya females are Wheaten colored and AG females are not.


AG BBRed females look like this: Cubalaya females look like this (Totally different):






AG BBRed males look like this: Cubalaya BBRed Males look almost identical in color.



So my question is; if the Cubalaya came from Games, why is the coloring of the females different? Or is there really no difference? Like for instance, could you use a Wheaten AG female under a BBRed AG and get the same result as with the Cubalaya? I know this might be a complex question. I am just curious why there is the difference.

 

[cubakid]

Genetically, Cubalayas are a "wheaten" plus some other factors that alter the female to make it darker than any traditional wheatens. AG on the other hand are duckwing based, like silver duckwing, BBRed, golden duckwing, and red Pyle. Males between any breed of the two colors, or even the color partridge, are very similar in color. The hackle, saddle, back, and wings show the same colors. Then the females are completely different between them all. Wheaten and BBRed together make an altered version of each. OEGB Wheatens sometimes have BBRed crossed in for type. So every once in a while ill hatch a bird that looks BBRed, but the salmon brown breast is wheaten hen colored(only the breast though). The colors are visually similar in males, but genetically not really compatible.

Interesting that someone out of state has my birds, as I only send a handful out. I hope they bred them well. I had a junior show this weekend with 680 birds in entered. Took Ch. and Res Largefowl(Australorp as best LF and Res of Show) my cubalaya male(reserve Largefowl) got props from one judge who "wanted to look at that bird everyday", the other judge said my Aussie was the best he'd see on the west coast in a long time. I love seeing the Cubas do well at the shows, they are the best show bird in my opinion.

I have hatched about 40 whites or so, 5 or ten black, and maybe 5 BBRed. I hatched one from a white pullet(blue father, white mother) and a blue male(same parentage), the chick looks visually white but has dark coloring around the face and back, so I'm guessing its a splash. I lost one that hatched from Blacks(all the same parentage as the blue and white previously mentioned) that was a uniform silver/blue like a self blue chick. But it died so no idea what it was. Moved eggs into the hatcher this evening an had like 90 percent fertility from the all white pen, the lone black egg was fertile, all five blXwhite were fertile, and not a single BBRed that I wanted... Hopefully I get the testosterone pills for them that a friend was saying to give to increase fertility and sperm count in the birds(tripled his wyandotte cocks yield when AI'ed). Off to another good white year, and I hope they get the compliments that my BBReds are getting. Hope everyone else's year is off to a good start.

Zach

 

[saladin]

i agree with cubakid and the catigories that i heard the breeds were selected from were european duel purpose fowl, european game birds, and mostly oriental game.

There were no 'european dual purpose fowl' used in the makeup of the Cubalaya. That doesn't mean some here in the States might not have used some to grade from, but they were not in the original makeup: only Games and Oriental Games.

There actually is a 'list' of the breeds utilized. They can be found in the article by Don Carlos Caballe. I believe I posted this article on UFF.

 

[saladin]

Genetically, Cubalayas are a "wheaten" plus some other factors that alter the female to make it darker than any traditional wheatens. AG on the other hand are duckwing based, like silver duckwing, BBRed, golden duckwing, and red Pyle. Males between any breed of the two colors, or even the color partridge, are very similar in color. The hackle, saddle, back, and wings show the same colors. Then the females are completely different between them all. Wheaten and BBRed together make an altered version of each. OEGB Wheatens sometimes have BBRed crossed in for type. So every once in a while ill hatch a bird that looks BBRed, but the salmon brown breast is wheaten hen colored(only the breast though). The colors are visually similar in males, but genetically not really compatible.

Interesting that someone out of state has my birds, as I only send a handful out. I hope they bred them well. I had a junior show this weekend with 680 birds in entered. Took Ch. and Res Largefowl(Australorp as best LF and Res of Show) my cubalaya male(reserve Largefowl) got props from one judge who "wanted to look at that bird everyday", the other judge said my Aussie was the best he'd see on the west coast in a long time. I love seeing the Cubas do well at the shows, they are the best show bird in my opinion.

I have hatched about 40 whites or so, 5 or ten black, and maybe 5 BBRed. I hatched one from a white pullet(blue father, white mother) and a blue male(same parentage), the chick looks visually white but has dark coloring around the face and back, so I'm guessing its a splash. I lost one that hatched from Blacks(all the same parentage as the blue and white previously mentioned) that was a uniform silver/blue like a self blue chick. But it died so no idea what it was. Moved eggs into the hatcher this evening an had like 90 percent fertility from the all white pen, the lone black egg was fertile, all five blXwhite were fertile, and not a single BBRed that I wanted... Hopefully I get the testosterone pills for them that a friend was saying to give to increase fertility and sperm count in the birds(tripled his wyandotte cocks yield when AI'ed). Off to another good white year, and I hope they get the compliments that my BBReds are getting. Hope everyone else's year is off to a good start.

Zach

Excellent explanation Zach. What is also interesting from a historical perspective is that stippled/partridge (or whatever name they call 'Real' BBR hens where you are from: here it is stippled) hens have also always existed in the Cubalaya breed. Mr Finch bred them with stippled hens in the 50s and 60s: possibly before that.

 

[Jungleexplorer]

Thanks Cuba. So if I crossed this rooster with this hen , what would be the outcome in your opinion?

The one thing I need further clarification on is the coloring difference between Duckwing and Wheaten males? I mean they look a like, what do you look for to tell them apart?