Culling with baking soda and vinegar

[CrazyTalk]

It is perfectly acceptable and humane when done correctly. Vinegar and soda is not correctly. With a proper chamber, a tank of CO2 and a flow regulator it is a simple and painless process. It is the preferred method when culling flocks of resident canadian geese.

No, it's really not painless. The vast majority of animals don't have 'oxygen sensors' in their blood, they actually monitor CO2 concentration in the blood. When you gas a bird with CO2, the bird knows it's not getting enough oxygen, It goes through stages of panic, anxiety, and then a painful death. In order to be humane, it has to be something other than CO2 - like nitrogen gas, or better an anesthetic. Gassing something with CO2 is a lot like drowning - it's not pleasant.

Most of the AVMA's recommendations for gassing refer to gassing with anesthetics - and they specifically recommend that because containment gassing often causes anxious behavior and animal stress. It's way more complicated, it's not particularly humane, and you're way more likely to screw something up and cause the animal a lot of pain.

The most humane methods are the fast ones - cervical dislocation, decapitation, pithing, etc

 

[Chickenchick11]

I wished I'd never done it. After reading a few threads saying how humane it was and that they wouldn't suffer I decided to use this method on my adult EE. She needed to be put down because she had been unable to move her legs for about six months, had stopped eating and was losing weigh. So I wanted to end her suffering and could not afford a vet. Well don't believe them when they say that they just fall asleep. They don't. They suffocate to death and it is horrible. I cried my eyes out for what I did to her. I had to listen to her pecking at the lid to get out. I'm just plain sick over it. I agree that breaking the neck or cutting it off would be the best and fastest way to end it. Don't do what I did. It's to cruel.

You didn't want your girl to suffer and that's what matters. You tried your best and your very brave to make a thread about it. *Hugs*

 

[grannyhowie]

Obviously you attempted the CO2 method. Please review the AVMA Guidelines for Euthanasia. https://www.avma.org/KB/Policies/Pa...utm_term=issues-animal_welfare-euthanasia-pdf

It is perfectly acceptable and humane when done correctly. Vinegar and soda is not correctly. With a proper chamber, a tank of CO2 and a flow regulator it is a simple and painless process. It is the preferred method when culling flocks of resident canadian geese.

Now as an aside I am genuinely sorry for your loss and the suffering you feel but honestly use this time for introspection if just maybe your personal emotional issues might be doing your animals more harm than good. None of us wish to inflict undue suffering on animals but that cannot be an excuse to avoid the unpleasant tasks of life or to justify experimentation for our own selfish desires.

What can I say. You are right. At the time I really did believe that my hen would just fall asleep. My ignorance and trusting what I read on this site and many others was why I did what I did. It was not an experiment on my part. I really did believe that it would work the way they said it would.

 

[hennible]

The best thing you can do is ensure to your best ability no one else makes the same mistake...
I'm so sorry someone past that off as a good idea
... I will also try to spread the word that this does not work...

 

[howfunkyisurchicken]

I'm so very sorry you had to go through that, and that you're now dealing with guilt because of it. We all have to learn this chicken business at some point. And, while I've never tried the method you used, the ones I have used have required a little trial and error. I think we all feel guilty when we take a life, whatever the reason, but you did what you had to do to end her suffering. You had her best interests at heart, and that's what matters.

 

[gawildlife]

No, it's really not painless. The vast majority of animals don't have 'oxygen sensors' in their blood, they actually monitor CO2 concentration in the blood. When you gas a bird with CO2, the bird knows it's not getting enough oxygen, It goes through stages of panic, anxiety, and then a painful death. In order to be humane, it has to be something other than CO2 - like nitrogen gas, or better an anesthetic. Gassing something with CO2 is a lot like drowning - it's not pleasant. 


Most of the AVMA's recommendations for gassing refer to gassing with anesthetics - and they specifically recommend that because containment gassing often causes anxious behavior and animal stress. It's way more complicated, it's not particularly humane, and you're way more likely to screw something up and cause the animal a lot of pain. 

The most humane methods are the fast ones - cervical dislocation, decapitation, pithing, etc

You say this from what experience?

Let's just say it has not been my experience, lots of experience.

BTW, while I quote the AVMA, BMPs and Canada's AHITS standards chapter and verse I also base everything I say on a lifetime of experience most will never see and run it past not only my colleagues for discussion but I also bounce it off some of the best rehabilitation folks in the southeast and those folks don't think to kindly of my profession so I'm sure I get the unvarnished truth from them. BTW, guess what they use.

 

[CrazyTalk]

I've both seen it done, and done it myself - it's nowhere near as humane as doing it with a non-CO2 gas. It's a mess.

The AVMA literature you linked repeatedly states that birds show aversion to high CO2, and are distressed - which matches my experience. It also states that lower concentrations of CO2 lead to a slower death, but significantly less stress - which means that the baking soda method may actually be more humane than outright gassing with CO2 - which is horrific.


This method is complicated, dangerous, and not all that humane. There are easier, safer, more humane methods to do this.

 

[ChickenPox]

I'm sorry for your loss, and the hard learning experience that went along with it. I have had moments with chicks I"ve hatched with deformities, not sharp enough scissors.......I understand and I"m sorry.

 

[Talonstorm]

Now as an aside I am genuinely sorry for your loss and the suffering you feel but honestly use this time for introspection if just maybe your personal emotional issues might be doing your animals more harm than good. None of us wish to inflict undue suffering on animals but that cannot be an excuse to avoid the unpleasant tasks of life or to justify experimentation for our own selfish desires.

Really? SMH I don't think that a person feeling sorrow over an animal suffering indicates she has "personal emotional issues". She was trying to do the right thing and she has learned her lesson on this. I'm not sure why you would feel your post was appropriate, but perhaps you should examine your own emotional issues (or your interpersonal issues at the very least).

 

[gawildlife]

What I meant was pretty simple and not meant to belittle. Animals die including the human ones it is an unpleasant experience no matter what your bent. If it isn't then you definitely have severe emotional issues.
Some people when confronted with this natural event are so loath to confront the inevitable they go to any length to avoid the unpleasant emotions that that fail to take into consideration the needs of the one it is actually happening to.

To put it bluntly all this misplaced concern for the suffering of livestock is often the direct result of emotional issues of the complaintant. To the point that many times the animal suffers as a result.

For example I spoke with one of those this afternoon. In this course of our conversation she not only asked me to commit an illegal act but volunteered to do so herself and owned up to several others including Lacey Act violations. All in the name of compassion to animals she would circumvent a law put in place solely to prevent the suffering of wildlife. It was really more about how she felt about it than what the facts were.