curly toes

Discussion in 'Pheasants and Partridge (Chukar)' started by birdman55, Dec 1, 2014.

  1. birdman55

    birdman55 Chillin' With My Peeps

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    where does the curly toes come from...ive heard it comes from inbreeding as well as the hatching
    process...anyone with information that would be great...out of all the birds we got this year
    two of them had curly toes...what i mean by curly toes is that say the foot is on the ground
    normally laying straight...well they would curl side to side not up and down..is it ok to breed a
    bird with curly toes...is it a bad blood line cause the one guy i got the one bird from is very
    well known and has been breeding for 35 years and all of his birds are beautiful..so i was just
    wondering i will try and go get a pic later today...thanks for any input
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    would be the female on the left also do you notice the male dots on the tail for the female is this a normal trait that the red goldens should have
     
  2. Free Feather

    Free Feather Chillin' With My Peeps

    Are they kept on wire?
     
  3. birdman55

    birdman55 Chillin' With My Peeps

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    no there r not...both females from two different breeders..and i read online it has to due with high
    humidity during the incubation and if you dont straighten them when they are young then the can get arthritis
    but breeding them wont be inherited to the offspring..i will be testing this this breeding season with one male red
    golden and two curly toe female red goldens and i will let everyone know how they turn out..any other breeders with input
    is great...or your experiances...i am quickly learning with an open mind..thanks again
     
  4. dc3085

    dc3085 Chillin' With My Peeps

    95% of the curled toes I see in incubated birds are due to incubation factors although genetics can cause it. Mostly by the time a bird would exhibiting crooked toes from inbreeding, it would also have shown a decrease in thrift and fertility enough so that a careful breeder would only cull such a bird.

    Mostly though it comes from fluctuating temperature and humidity during incubation. It happens a lot to people who are new to hatching, but once you get skilled with it, curled toes should be a very rare.
     
  5. birdman55

    birdman55 Chillin' With My Peeps

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    I made my own incubator out of a styro container and it fluctuated from 93 to 102....with no curly toes...but they were all chickens....so maybe its just the type of bird as well
     
  6. dc3085

    dc3085 Chillin' With My Peeps

    No it happens to chickens too, you just didn't create the right circumstances or they were healthy enough hatchers to get out of the egg before it happened.
     
  7. Blooie

    Blooie Team Spina Bifida Premium Member

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    Don't forget that sometimes "curly toes" can be caused by environmental conditions as well. I have a chick who got frostbitten feet when our temps plummeted to -17. I brought him in and have been treating his feet for a couple of weeks now. Last week they looked great - this week I'm deciding whether to make the awful decision to cull him. I'll post a couple of pictures so that you can see the dramatic change in his feet in one week's time. You can also follow Scout's story in more detail by clicking the link in my signature. (That's a generic "him" by the way, because I have no idea if Scout is a roo or a pullet.) Scout, by the way, is a chicken, not a pheasant, but the anatomy is about the same.

    I should also mention that I grew up in Eastern South Dakota and started hunting with my dad when the shotgun was bigger than I was. From a genetics/incubation standpoint, we've shot more than a few wild birds who had curled feet - usually the middle toe was the worst, just as in the frostbite pictures of Scout. Dad used to call them our "good-luck-bringing-pheasants" and teased us kids that he was going to get a check for a million dollars in the mail because we'd gotten a lucky pheasant. And since we hunted in all corners of the state, the odds of inbreeding were slim to nil.

    [​IMG]
    Scout's toes last week...

    .......and as of last night.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
    Granted his toes are a great deal more curled than the examples of your pheasants, but we know what caused his problem. I certainly hope that your questioning and testing result in a good outcome for your program.
     
    Last edited: Dec 2, 2014
  8. Free Feather

    Free Feather Chillin' With My Peeps

    I would wait to see if he had noticeable issues when he got older. I like to give everything a good chance at living, and would not kill something for something that unlife-threatening. But I do not know the situation, and the best judge of what would be right for Scout, besides Scout, would be you. Do what you think is right.
     
  9. birdman55

    birdman55 Chillin' With My Peeps

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    its an experimental pen and we are keeping logs in each pen...also we are getting the materials
    thursday for another ten pens...biggest pen being 16 by 20...so it will be work but got to get it
    done for friday is my bday..that is my treat an expensive treat but well worth it...
    i just feel bad for some birds and then buy them from breeders cause i know i will spend way more time with
    them then most people do...the male is very healthy with nothing wrong with him and is matured at two years
    of age
     
  10. Blooie

    Blooie Team Spina Bifida Premium Member

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    Thank you for the encouraging words. I've had him out in the run many times since his frostbite and it always went very well....but not since the contractures in his toes. Today he couldn't outrun or reach his hiding spots fast enough to get away from the others, and they were out to kill him, not just remind him of his place in the pecking order. He also isn't able to roost well or land safely when he flies. He'll also be more prone to frostbite and further injury, and Northern Wyoming is not known for mild or short winters. So when I come right down to it this injury is life-threatening - he'll have to fight just for leftovers if he can even get them. Not quite fair to him to imprison him in a "sorta" life when he deserves so much more.

    Birdman, I like the idea of keeping logs. That would not only be helpful to you, but to anyone who is following the issue with curly toes in their flocks. Hope you get that pen built by your birthday. Oh, and by the way, Happy Birthday!!
     

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