Dark of Night, eyes closed-"Big Jake"

[Cobra96]

3 year old, crossed bantam rooster, feathered feet. 3 to 4 pounds.
Sudden, overnight lethargy, slowly reducing movement, eyes becoming closed, but continued eating scratch grain, cracked corn, if hand fed. Rooster, cannot 'aim' a peck, but gulps grain or anything else, but repeatedly 'falls asleep' while doing so. Gentle rock under breast or just gently holding finger under left wing, causes him to become alert, eat, then back to closed eyes. Stands mostly still throughout day, lays flat at night. Issue underway for 6 days plus. "Jake" continues to fight for life, has not given up eating, or valiantly trying to eat. Requires constant attention as to providing feed and water and seems to be 'blind', or to have lost 'depth perception', often pecking and missing bowl altogether, as well as missing water. Several gulps of grain or water, lead to quick 'nod off', then gently shake him awake, he'll eat more. Stool normal.
Okay, started with Safeguard worming, and mite spray, Jake had bad mites and am not sure just how many times to hit him with the spray, other than bottle suggests 'once every five days'. Bag balm and vaseline on legs, feet, comb very Gentle swipe across closed eyelids., had seen suggestion here, for that, to 'suffocate mites'. Spray appeared to cause mites to fall off and appears to have worked. Would not open eyes before spray, now opens them both, but closes them again shortly after some ten gulps of grain.

Amoxicillin for 3 days, at suggested common rates, little improvement. Penicillin for 2 days, little improvement. Aspirin was tried, with some delayed response, but back to closed eyes, off and on. Don't have photo currently. Jake's in box, with hay, cleaned daily and allowed to stand outside box in window sun or shade, fully climate comfortable.
Most puzzling, very good appetite, but literally, even though at least one eye or another open, simply can't get depth perception, clacking beak when he misses feed, but with guidance, eats until 'sleep' hits and then you just try him again five minutes later, until you think he's had enough. Jakes nothing near 'active' and assumption is this is due to limited vision. He does often shift his stance,mostly in circles, apparently trying to stay comfortable as he can.
Prior to illness, 'Jake' was just 'one of those chickens' who would simply let you pick him up and hang around your feet in the backyard, if he happened to want to, so handling him, feeding him, is not a stressful issue. Keeping him awake and his eyes open, is.
Corid was given and since he's still eating, experimenting any further with meds, seems risky, though the eye issue clearly has to be resolved, lost weight initially, but seems to be maintaining current weight.

Jake crows vigorously early morning, but varies his 'Start Time' by up to an hour each A.M.

Jake wakes the entire household, since I'm keeping him in the main living room.

Crows mid afternoon, as well. Nice and loud. And if you didn't know about the eye issue and simply heard Jake crow, you'd think there was a perfectly healthy rooster in there.

Severe and sometimes vial protests, from multiple residents of household. Puzzling curse words. I have tried to explain there's no 'treatment' for being woke in early AM.

Furious residents are managing, but not being particularly friendly towards me, nor Jake. Most, I believe, are yelling, '"Fun to you!", but it's often very early and I can't make out exactly what they're all saying.
Few will enter into conversation with me throughout the day now , so I speak mostly to Jake, telling him to 'hang on'. Jake hasn't directly replied to any of my comments, but I am pleased each morning,so far, that he crows at loud, 'boom box' level decibel. The tone of Jake's crow, is a startling and fierce crow, of a magnitude one would only suspect from a huge, disreputable rooster of ill repute. But yet, when in good health, Jake will stand by your leg and await a pick up, as well as follow you around the largest of barns.
Also hoping the slamming doors and items being kicked loudly in several adjoining rooms, immediately after his first three crows, is sensed as a 'response' by Jake, to his sometimes 4:30 A.M. crows. Perhaps his crow, followed by banging and shouting, will stimulate him, though I can't be certain that's the intent of the residents involved. Nor do I understand why they insist I have, 'fun', at 4:30 A.M., which is more a time for coffee and reflection.

Not to make light my concern for Jake's future. He is, no doubt, seriously ill and at this moment, don't know whether he might be on the mend, or it's calm before storm. Jake was 'rescued' about two years ago, from a local farmer, who simply said he, "Cannot drop the hatchet on this one", despite dealing with thousands of chickens in that manner. I took Jake in.
Currently giving typical suggested level of Amoxicillin, ( am aware stopping treatment initially was mistake but his illness was severe and little time to wait for response to particular meds) with suspect improvement in eye control, but certainly not out of the woods. Should Jake remain with us, I will try to provide provide a photo tomorrow.
Has anyone seen such condition before?

 

[Cobra96]

Well, looks like 53 views but no suggestion of what to do. Disappointing here today, disappointing.

 

[lbgreenfield]

Hi. I'm sorry this is happening to your rooster. A lot of people "lurk" here on BYC and don't actually respond, I've been in your situation before, it is frustrating.

With regard to the mites/lice/parasites, have you confirmed that he 100% does not have them anymore? I just lost my leghorn hen to mites/lice and she had the same symptoms as your rooster. You have to completely clean out and burn all the bedding in the coop, and spray every nook and crannie in the coop with Permethrin-10 poultry spray or completely cover the chicken with permethrin poultry dust. The liquid Permethrin needs to be diluted for coop and chicken application per the package instructions. Not sure where you are located, but this is what I used: https://www.tractorsupply.com/tsc/product/gordons-permethrin-10-livestock-and-premise-spray-8-oz). Bag balm or Vaseline may smother the mites on his body, but it won't kill eggs or mites in the roost areas or even ones on his body. You need to treat him with Permethrin dust or diluted spray.

For nutrition, I'd try and give him a scrambled egg, canned tuna, plain greek yogurt, or wet mash of his feed mixed with some Nutri-Drench to get him more nutrients. Also, dose him with liquids to make sure he is hydrated. The antibiotics, plus wormer, plus with the mites is most likely bogging down his system.

Also, with your neighbors, are you allowed to have a rooster in your municipality? Most municipalities don't allow roosters, so I can understand your neighbor's frustration. I would check before you potentially get reported to your local zoning or ordinance officials.

How is he today? Pictures will help.

 

[Cobra96]

Hi. I'm sorry this is happening to your rooster. A lot of people "lurk" here on BYC and don't actually respond, I've been in your situation before, it is frustrating.

With regard to the mites/lice/parasites, have you confirmed that he 100% does not have them anymore? I just lost my leghorn hen to mites/lice and she had the same symptoms as your rooster. You have to completely clean out and burn all the bedding in the coop, and spray every nook and crannie in the coop with Permethrin-10 poultry spray or completely cover the chicken with permethrin poultry dust. The liquid Permethrin needs to be diluted for coop and chicken application per the package instructions. Not sure where you are located, but this is what I used: https://www.tractorsupply.com/tsc/product/gordons-permethrin-10-livestock-and-premise-spray-8-oz). Bag balm or Vaseline may smother the mites on his body, but it won't kill eggs or mites in the roost areas or even ones on his body. You need to treat him with Permethrin dust or diluted spray.

For nutrition, I'd try and give him a scrambled egg, canned tuna, plain greek yogurt, or wet mash of his feed mixed with some Nutri-Drench to get him more nutrients. Also, dose him with liquids to make sure he is hydrated. The antibiotics, plus wormer, plus with the mites is most likely bogging down his system.

Also, with your neighbors, are you allowed to have a rooster in your municipality? Most municipalities don't allow roosters, so I can understand your neighbor's frustration. I would check before you potentially get reported to your local zoning or ordinance officials.

How is he today? Pictures will help.

 

[Cobra96]

,,,Thanks a great deal for the suggestions. I'm not 'sure' all the mites are gone, though I've examined his tail, neck and legs and see no movement of bugs as before, with magnifying glass. There was no mistaking the mites as they fell off him, onto white paper beneath rooster for examination. Fewer seem to be falling off now.(working on getting tech savvy grandkid to help me post a couple pictures of rooster, but those grandkids are tough to find when you need them)
He hasn't been back to the coop, other chickens ( 14 ) seem fine, except one now mimicking 'Jake's" early symptoms and is already separated, treated with mite spray and getting amoxicillin. Though this youger hen may have been injured by trauma and zero sign of visible mites or worms and has been treated for potential worms.
Used the following series of meds.
Amoxicillin, Penicillin, Tetracycline soluble powder,Safe Guard 0.5% pellet wormer, Permethrin Farm Guard 13.30 % concentrate 'w/w', whatever that means.
Basically just poured about a one-half (1) ounce in a gallon and a half of water and winged it. But mites fell off, pretty fast actually.
Concerned of course, as to that Permethrin mixture and probably like many home treaters, read everywhere about using 'too much' Permethrin and 'burning the bird'. He does appear to have red patches below the breast. I'd hit him again, but it's only been around three days.
Do note a 'green-white' appearing mold like 'barnacle' appearing well below vent and around what are normally fluffy lower feathers. Debating cleaning that off, but wonder what to use to do that and whether it's some microscopic 'bug clatch' or something? You ever heard of that?
And of course, I thank you for any time you give.
( I was kidding some about the crowing of Jake. That was reference to household family members complaining about his crowing. We're on a 60 acre farm.

 

[Trisseh]

Pictures of him and his feces may help a bit. The drowsiness may simply be weakness or anemia, or the result of an overwhelming disease process. What do his comb and wattles look like? Normal bright red? Pale? Purple/blue?
If he has a “barnacle” growing on the feathers by his vent, it’s most likely built up feces. The white is urates, as birds don’t urinate as mammals do. You can carefully and gently remove it, although if it’s really stuck you may need to soak it to remove. Often the birds that aren’t moving around much or at all will poop on themselves when they go.

as for mites, If you have access to pour on ivermectin meant for cattle, that may be a better option for treating external parasites on him - he’s a rooster so you don’t have to be concerned about the egg withdrawal issue with extra label use, so long as you’re not planning to eat him at any point.

Any nasal discharge, sneezing, etc? Is he able to walk, or is he having issues with placing his feet or other odd movements that may indicate neurological involvement?

(also, love the levity you’ve injected about the other members of the household’s choice words )

 

[Cobra96]

Pictures of him and his feces may help a bit. The drowsiness may simply be weakness or anemia, or the result of an overwhelming disease process. What do his comb and wattles look like? Normal bright red? Pale? Purple/blue?
If he has a “barnacle” growing on the feathers by his vent, it’s most likely built up feces. The white is urates, as birds don’t urinate as mammals do. You can carefully and gently remove it, although if it’s really stuck you may need to soak it to remove. Often the birds that aren’t moving around much or at all will poop on themselves when they go.

as for mites, If you have access to pour on ivermectin meant for cattle, that may be a better option for treating external parasites on him - he’s a rooster so you don’t have to be concerned about the egg withdrawal issue with extra label use, so long as you’re not planning to eat him at any point.

Any nasal discharge, sneezing, etc? Is he able to walk, or is he having issues with placing his feet or other odd movements that may indicate neurological involvement?

(also, love the levity you’ve injected about the other members of the household’s choice words )

Thank you for the questions ( no one here is talking to me, other than apparently wanting me to, 'have fun', so,, )
Anyway, his comb is bright red, with very tiny but rare black spots here and there. Very few though. His 'toes' seem scabbed and have been mite sprayed and then bag balmed ( vaseline) regularly and seem much smoother now, but part of the blacker color might be just his color. Underside of feet are clean, seem normal.
His eyelids appear to be a good red and the area around the eyes seems fine, with the eyeball, normal orange, just closed most the time, except when eating and both eyes are at least half open now, while eating, where for the first week, he never opened them at all.

He has no discharge at nasal, no sneezing and crows like a Railroad Train blows its horn. Which in this case, a tall ceiling, 1919 farm house, of old style spackle, makes for an echo of magnificence to the ears, a crescendo that pierces the homes' inner rooms and then booms outside. And which elicits other sounds throughout the house, of loud, early morning shouts and falling, thumping, unknown items.

'Jake' stands well, but weak. At this point, if in your lap, tries to and will climb your hand and perch with some steadiness. He can perch on the edge of a plastic tub with a half inch edge. Eyes open or not. His 'walking' is limited.
He simply takes a few steps forward, stops and keeps his head just a little lower than you would want. He has improved much from a week ago, but the eye issue is concerning, of course.
His stool is surprisingly normal. He misses when feeding on grain, but with patience,he can get full. I feed him throughout the whole day, any time he will eat. His pecking will move right to left, falling short of feed level, eventually turning his head near sideways and pecking upward, but definitely wants the grain. If you move his feed bowl and adjust for his 'reach', he gets full beak fulls of grain, but after perhaps 10 to 15 'gulps', he closes his eyes, like almost to rest from the effort.
So, I did spray him about three days ago with Permethrin,many dead mites could be seen on paper below him. I see no sign of any live bugs, on examination with magnifying glass. Do you think i should treat him again with ivermectin if I can find it here?
Do you use a soap to remove the urates? Or just soak in water? Should I wait to do that,avoiding stress, or is it best to get that off? Does the Permethrin continue to work on mites, after a treatment? Does that ivermectin get to mites , if they're inside the skin, or under the leg scales of the bird?
I deeply appreciate your time and frankly, have no friends left in the household.

 

[Trisseh]

I would be concerned about a number of the things he’s doing bring neurological in nature... circling, even though it seems to be purposeful, is odd behaviour, as is the missing what he’s pecking for. You could try wetting the food to make a mash, in which case he might be able to pick up more at a time with less “misses”. Nitro stench or a water additive electrolyte solution may be of some use as well.
unless you’re able to get him in to a vet to point you in the right direction, I would be leaning towards supportive care with the understanding that he may not improve. I wouldn’t want to throw any more drugs at him unless he starts showing clear, treatable symptoms (like nasal discharge or foamy eyes, etc.)
My other thought was potentially fowl pox, as you mentioned tiny black spots on his comb.

as for the ivermectin, it’s absorbed systemically so it’s effective against most external parasites, unlike the permethrins which generally need to come in contact with the parasites.

 

[Cobra96]

I would be concerned about a number of the things he’s doing bring neurological in nature... circling, even though it seems to be purposeful, is odd behaviour, as is the missing what he’s pecking for. You could try wetting the food to make a mash, in which case he might be able to pick up more at a time with less “misses”. Nitro stench or a water additive electrolyte solution may be of some use as well.
unless you’re able to get him in to a vet to point you in the right direction, I would be leaning towards supportive care with the understanding that he may not improve. I wouldn’t want to throw any more drugs at him unless he starts showing clear, treatable symptoms (like nasal discharge or foamy eyes, etc.)
My other thought was potentially fowl pox, as you mentioned tiny black spots on his comb.

as for the ivermectin, it’s absorbed systemically so it’s effective against most external parasites, unlike the permethrins which generally need to come in contact with the parasites.

 

[Cobra96]

Thank you Trisseh,
Tonight I made Jake a scrambled egg, margarine for oil. I woke him to eat and he ate the egg like a Marine and did not miss the egg near as much as he does cracked corn. Giving the idea of wetting food, solid ground. I will begin that. His eyes remained open throughout, which has not happened in many days. ( well over a week)
His aim is poor and I suspect the neurological guess is correct. On occasion, he has stood over his feeder and eaten without aid,but not long, as his eyes seem to close involuntarily. When open I'm not real sure how much he can even see.
He's been getting electrolyte with powdered Amoxicillin and has not had a full course of that. I'm wondering if he'd do better with no further meds. I don't know for sure that the Amox isn't making him so sleepy.
I'll look up this 'fowl pox' and see if there's similar symptoms and how to treat it. If so,,I'm going to find some of that ivermectin and use it instead of the others.
I do hope he comes out of it all, but I have serious doubts,mainly due to what does seem to be a neurological problem. I'm wide open to any and all advice and very much appreciate yours.