Death by dusting?

[Chicken_Lover]

It still works while wet. People feed DE to their chickens for worm prevention. It's not dry inside of a chicken.

 

[eggchel]

It's not dry inside of a chicken.

Excellent point.

And Funny, too.


chel​

 

[SandraChick]

true true true....

for DE to work on regular outside bugs...it needs to be dry. Drying on the bug works too.

If you look into it....scientists still cannot explain how/why it works as a wormer. Leading theory is it "scrubs" the inner lining ... which also explains some studies showing improved feed conversion ration (i think that was in cows though).

Any how.....
I works for me....I use it.

Sandra

edited to add: the reason the dry thing is important to people like me is it rains a lot here. So using it in the garden against pests does not work during the rainy season ( I myself can attest to that).
Sandra

 

[dlhunicorn]

Quote:
This has been discussed and studies posted at the other BYC site...DE taken internally will not treat an active worm infestation...look in the emergencies forum and Disease and Cures forum...lots of people with sick birds who just never considered the possibility of worms because they were "giving DE" ... (it is good for management of the problem by for instance treating the area your birds forage in (if you have fewer bugs in your garden for the chickens to eat which in turn give yoru birds worms) then the chances of getting a worm infestation is lower). ARS field studies concluded DE to be ineffective when given internally however it still remains a controversial point.

 

[Chicken_Lover]

<<Drying on the bug works too.>>

Since DE works to dehydrate the 'bug', the water would need to evaporate first before it dies from dehydration, but DE will still cut when wet. DE is microscopic fossilized shells, fossilized shells don't get soft when wet. In the case of internal parasites, it would be reasonable to say that the 'bug' protective coating is cut and the chicken's stomach acids kill them (digest).

<<the reason the dry thing is important to people like me is it rains a lot here. So using it in the garden against pests does not work during the rainy season>>

Nothing will work if the rain/water washes it away.

<<DE taken internally will not treat an active worm infestation>>

Please note, I said prevention.

I looked on the www.ars.usda.gov website and didn't find any Diatomaceous Earth and chickens field studies. Could you post the link? You are the queen of links, correct?

<<lots of people with sick birds who just never considered the possibility of worms because they were "giving DE">>

There are factors to be considered here. Like; where these chickens over crowded, constantly in poop filled living areas, was enough DE being fed (2%), being fed DE everyday, was a DE regiment started when the chickens were chicks. Anyone of these can cause DE to be "in-effective". Cleanliness and regiment are important factors.

To think that any product will work under every circumstance is unreasonable.

 

[dlhunicorn]

I am not about to get involved in another "DE war" on this site as happened a while back on BYC (I am sure all but newbies recall)...just pointing out that the info you give is purely conjecture and unsubstantiated by ONE proper study. (The field study also involved sheep...the threads at byc were too old and not kept at the board ... the only thread I found (superficial search) discussing this (listing some studies I think?) still at the board is this one:
http://p072.ezboard.com/fbackyardchickensfrm13.showMessage?topicID=1870.topic)
from what I recall of the scientific studies etc. on DE that were researched at the time it does not work (on killing the bugs) when wet.
If you have proper studies which substantiate that it can prevent or treat an active worm infestion (ARS/Poultry science etc.) then you have been more successful than I was at locating such.

 

[eggchel]

Thank you everyone for all the informative replies.



chel

 

[dlhunicorn]

Quote:
the ATTRA article below discusses one of the studies:
http://www.attra.org/attra-pub/livestockipm.html
Integrated Parasite Management For Livestock
(By Ann Wells, DVM
NCAT Agriculture Specialist
Published 1999
ATTRA Publication #IP150)
In the section of this article discussing Alternative dewormers:
""Natural product evaluated for efficiency in deworming sheep" from the Spring 1997 issue of Leopold Letter is a report that showed no statistical difference between the use of DE and the control group."
and in this section it further explains that:
"Conclusion
There is no one thing that can be given or done to replace chemical dewormers. It will take a combination of extremely good management techniques and possibly some alternative therapies. Do not think you can just stop deworming your animals with chemical dewormers. It is something you will need to change gradually, observing and testing animals and soil, in order to monitor your progress."


further helpful relevant excerpts:

......."Management of animals, pastures and any loafing areas is key to reducing the amount of internal parasite problems in livestock. An understanding of the life cycles of the different parasites within the whole soil-plant-animal system will help show the interrelationships between these three components. Managing internal parasites is just like managing fleas in dogs and cats. The major part of the parasite life cycle is outside of the animal. This point will help the producer to choose management strategies that reduce parasite levels on his or her farm and decrease the usage of chemical dewormers. ................Pasture contamination by infective larvae is the primary factor to deal with. If you start with an understanding of the interrelationship between the animal, the plants it eats and the soil on which those plants grow, then it becomes clearer how parasites infect the animal and how they can be managed so as not to cause as many problems. .........

.....It is the young animal whose immune system is not fully mature and the animal whose immune system is compromised by disease, inadequate nutrition, or other stress, that is most adversely affected by worms........
Keep in mind that there are other conditions that can mimic the signs of parasites. It is easy to assume that any unthrifty or thin animal with a rough hair coat or diarrhea is wormy. Internal parasites may be present, but the clinical signs are secondary or a symptom of some other, more insidious disease or condition. Any stressful condition, such as a weather extreme, can cause borderline clinical parasitism to become severe. If animals do not have enough forage or other feed in the fall so that they go into winter in good condition, this lack of condition will cause additional stress on the animal in other ways. This animal will be more apt to show extreme clinical signs of parasitism, including blood loss and death, than an animal which might have some internal parasites but is in good physical condition and is on a high plane of nutrition. In this case, poor nutrition is the cause of the animal's disease and worms are the symptom

 

[bigzio]

While the debate on using diatomaceous earth continues, I think it is really a matter of choice, and what works for you. I can't recommend the use of DE because I choose not to use it, and will only give advice from personal experience.

I'm not for or against it's use, let me make myself clear about that.

Let me post this link for some additional thought. Maybe someone can learn something new from it, that is my only intention.

http://www.shagbarkbantams.com/de.htm

bigzio

 

[Chicken_Lover]

We don't seem to be on the same page on this.

You say it doesn't work as a de-wormer, I AGREE. All you data is for de-worming.

I'm saying it works as a worm PREVENTION (as mentioned on other posts). Proper chicken care has to be instituted along with a DE regiment.

DE works for me, but I'm meticulous on the care of my chickens.

Edited to add...
<<lots of people with sick birds who just never considered the possibility of worms because they were "giving DE">>

Can you say with any certainly that the people that had problems was; Feeding 2% (3.2 oz per 10 lb) of DE daily and started a regiment when the chickens were chicks? NOT using the deep litter method that seems to be the preferred method? Not removing poop for six months is allot of manure for the chickens to live in.