Deep litter done right

[moco27]

Leaves are my main ingredient as they are what I have access to ( some grass clippings mixed in ) Coop is a no brainer as I keep it deep and dry and it takes care of itself. It would be nice of I could keep compost PILES in the run but chickens being chickens they level out anything piled in an afternoon.

I'd like to have a consistent supply sawdust

Sawdust is easy to find. Most places that have it would be so grateful that someone would take it away. The sawmills are plentiful near me and you would be surprised how hidden they are. I googled cabinet makers near me and found 3 within a half hour of my place and I am so rural I can't get cell service or internet other than dial up. When I google saw mills I get 3 as well but I know of at least 20 within a half hour of our place.

 

[moco27]

I started deep litter several years ago using the methods that everyone claims to have had success using. It' didn't work for me, it smelled clumped/matted was a ton of work and didn't look like I was doing my chickens a service by using it. I tried straw first and noticed that it made a thick mat of poo under the roost especially. It was hard to remove and didn't break down at all.
I switched to sawdust and it was easier to work with but it still had a strong odor of ammonia after a week or two. I needed to rake it several times a week and it wasn't supposed to be like that. I have a 10 x 20 coop and at the time had about 200 chickens. I have a dump truck and would get my sawdust for free at a local saw mill. There are many sources of free sawdust almost everywhere. School wood shops, home depot, cabinet shops, woodworking shops, and many more. We changed the litter once a month like clockwork to keep the manure from overwhelming the coop. That's what the large broiler operations do and I don't like that system. I tried to add new litter once a week but that didn't work either.
I saw claims that it needed to be moist like compost. I tried that too and it stunk worse. I began to wonder if any of the folks that were claiming this was great actually used it.
One day in December my dump truck broke. I was forced to rake it daily for a few months. It smelled of ammonia, I installed an exhaust fan in the coop to make it safe for the chickens. I had piles under the roost and it didn't look good. I noticed that after a few months (it was winter) it was smelling less and there wasn't any poo buildup under the roost. The litter completely dried out turned gray and by March I didn't need to rake it at all.
By June I noticed the litter had reduced from about 6 inches to about 3 inches of thickness. I added another 6 inches of new sawdust and mixed the old sawdust with the new. I was amazed that the new bright yellow sawdust was gray by the next day. The deeper the better.
The hens pile it up against the coop door and it doesn't seem to rot the wood at all. The wood turned gray but isn't breaking down. I imagine it's because the litter is so dry.
In september I took half of the litter out and hauled it to the garden to be placed on the garden after the first frost.
The new sawdust was mixed in with the old and it worked flawlessly. During the winter it didn't stop working and stayed dry. I have not changed it in 14 months and counting. I am waiting this year until spring to remove half of it to see if I like that schedule better for the garden.
My litter has a colony of self sustaining mealworms and beetles living in it. Mine came in feed but you can buy them and put them deep into the litter and cover it with a small piece of plywood or something to give them a chance at first.

This is my recipe.

1. Use 8 inches of sawdust, hay, straw, leaves, pine shavings, and pine straw don't work nearly as well despite what everyone else says. This is not garden compost so don't treat it like garden compost.

2. Keep it dry. Only use it in a dry coop. Don't add any water ever and don't use it outside. It turns to stinky mud if it gets wet.

3. Turn it every day until it starts to work on it's own. You will go to the coop to turn it one day and it will dawn on you that it isn't necessary.

4. Start it in the warmer weather for faster results. It will work in colder weather once it matures but it takes longer to start in cold weather.

5. Never remove all of it. It's like sourdough starter, you need the mother.

6. Put the old litter in the garden. I have never had better planting medium. I had a tomato plant that grew an 11 inch leaf on this stuff. View attachment 1186606

7. Don't sanitize the coop, use chemicals or DE. You want to promote the growth of bacteria and other organisms to break down the manure.

8. Be patient and it will pay off. In the end you will have no coop litter maintenance except one day a year. It won't smell after it starts and it's always dry and loose.

I started deep litter several years ago using the methods that everyone claims to have had success using. It' didn't work for me, it smelled clumped/matted was a ton of work and didn't look like I was doing my chickens a service by using it. I tried straw first and noticed that it made a thick mat of poo under the roost especially. It was hard to remove and didn't break down at all.
I switched to sawdust and it was easier to work with but it still had a strong odor of ammonia after a week or two. I needed to rake it several times a week and it wasn't supposed to be like that. I have a 10 x 20 coop and at the time had about 200 chickens. I have a dump truck and would get my sawdust for free at a local saw mill. There are many sources of free sawdust almost everywhere. School wood shops, home depot, cabinet shops, woodworking shops, and many more. We changed the litter once a month like clockwork to keep the manure from overwhelming the coop. That's what the large broiler operations do and I don't like that system. I tried to add new litter once a week but that didn't work either.
I saw claims that it needed to be moist like compost. I tried that too and it stunk worse. I began to wonder if any of the folks that were claiming this was great actually used it.
One day in December my dump truck broke. I was forced to rake it daily for a few months. It smelled of ammonia, I installed an exhaust fan in the coop to make it safe for the chickens. I had piles under the roost and it didn't look good. I noticed that after a few months (it was winter) it was smelling less and there wasn't any poo buildup under the roost. The litter completely dried out turned gray and by March I didn't need to rake it at all.
By June I noticed the litter had reduced from about 6 inches to about 3 inches of thickness. I added another 6 inches of new sawdust and mixed the old sawdust with the new. I was amazed that the new bright yellow sawdust was gray by the next day. The deeper the better.
The hens pile it up against the coop door and it doesn't seem to rot the wood at all. The wood turned gray but isn't breaking down. I imagine it's because the litter is so dry.
In september I took half of the litter out and hauled it to the garden to be placed on the garden after the first frost.
The new sawdust was mixed in with the old and it worked flawlessly. During the winter it didn't stop working and stayed dry. I have not changed it in 14 months and counting. I am waiting this year until spring to remove half of it to see if I like that schedule better for the garden.
My litter has a colony of self sustaining mealworms and beetles living in it. Mine came in feed but you can buy them and put them deep into the litter and cover it with a small piece of plywood or something to give them a chance at first.

This is my recipe.

1. Use 8 inches of sawdust, hay, straw, leaves, pine shavings, and pine straw don't work nearly as well despite what everyone else says. This is not garden compost so don't treat it like garden compost.

2. Keep it dry. Only use it in a dry coop. Don't add any water ever and don't use it outside. It turns to stinky mud if it gets wet.

3. Turn it every day until it starts to work on it's own. You will go to the coop to turn it one day and it will dawn on you that it isn't necessary.

4. Start it in the warmer weather for faster results. It will work in colder weather once it matures but it takes longer to start in cold weather.

5. Never remove all of it. It's like sourdough starter, you need the mother.

6. Put the old litter in the garden. I have never had better planting medium. I had a tomato plant that grew an 11 inch leaf on this stuff. View attachment 1186606

7. Don't sanitize the coop, use chemicals or DE. You want to promote the growth of bacteria and other organisms to break down the manure.

8. Be patient and it will pay off. In the end you will have no coop litter maintenance except one day a year. It won't smell after it starts and it's always dry and loose.

I started deep litter several years ago using the methods that everyone claims to have had success using. It' didn't work for me, it smelled clumped/matted was a ton of work and didn't look like I was doing my chickens a service by using it. I tried straw first and noticed that it made a thick mat of poo under the roost especially. It was hard to remove and didn't break down at all.
I switched to sawdust and it was easier to work with but it still had a strong odor of ammonia after a week or two. I needed to rake it several times a week and it wasn't supposed to be like that. I have a 10 x 20 coop and at the time had about 200 chickens. I have a dump truck and would get my sawdust for free at a local saw mill. There are many sources of free sawdust almost everywhere. School wood shops, home depot, cabinet shops, woodworking shops, and many more. We changed the litter once a month like clockwork to keep the manure from overwhelming the coop. That's what the large broiler operations do and I don't like that system. I tried to add new litter once a week but that didn't work either.
I saw claims that it needed to be moist like compost. I tried that too and it stunk worse. I began to wonder if any of the folks that were claiming this was great actually used it.
One day in December my dump truck broke. I was forced to rake it daily for a few months. It smelled of ammonia, I installed an exhaust fan in the coop to make it safe for the chickens. I had piles under the roost and it didn't look good. I noticed that after a few months (it was winter) it was smelling less and there wasn't any poo buildup under the roost. The litter completely dried out turned gray and by March I didn't need to rake it at all.
By June I noticed the litter had reduced from about 6 inches to about 3 inches of thickness. I added another 6 inches of new sawdust and mixed the old sawdust with the new. I was amazed that the new bright yellow sawdust was gray by the next day. The deeper the better.
The hens pile it up against the coop door and it doesn't seem to rot the wood at all. The wood turned gray but isn't breaking down. I imagine it's because the litter is so dry.
In september I took half of the litter out and hauled it to the garden to be placed on the garden after the first frost.
The new sawdust was mixed in with the old and it worked flawlessly. During the winter it didn't stop working and stayed dry. I have not changed it in 14 months and counting. I am waiting this year until spring to remove half of it to see if I like that schedule better for the garden.
My litter has a colony of self sustaining mealworms and beetles living in it. Mine came in feed but you can buy them and put them deep into the litter and cover it with a small piece of plywood or something to give them a chance at first.

This is my recipe.

1. Use 8 inches of sawdust, hay, straw, leaves, pine shavings, and pine straw don't work nearly as well despite what everyone else says. This is not garden compost so don't treat it like garden compost.

2. Keep it dry. Only use it in a dry coop. Don't add any water ever and don't use it outside. It turns to stinky mud if it gets wet.

3. Turn it every day until it starts to work on it's own. You will go to the coop to turn it one day and it will dawn on you that it isn't necessary.

4. Start it in the warmer weather for faster results. It will work in colder weather once it matures but it takes longer to start in cold weather.

5. Never remove all of it. It's like sourdough starter, you need the mother.

6. Put the old litter in the garden. I have never had better planting medium. I had a tomato plant that grew an 11 inch leaf on this stuff. View attachment 1186606

7. Don't sanitize the coop, use chemicals or DE. You want to promote the growth of bacteria and other organisms to break down the manure.

8. Be patient and it will pay off. In the end you will have no coop litter maintenance except one day a year. It won't smell after it starts and it's always dry and loose.

This is what the chicken coop litter looks like with just sawdust.

https://www.facebook.com/kevin.scha...098388510571/1481285751925168/?type=3&theater

This is what the goat side of the barn looks like with sawdust that has had hay added to it.

https://www.facebook.com/kevin.scha...098388510571/1481711915215885/?type=3&theater

 

[aart]

Interesting....thanks for the vids, really helps to see.

Wonders how much the 'packing' in the goat area has to do mostly with the goats urinating..... and/or being heavier with bigger feet and/or not inclined to 'scratch' like chickens do rather than the hay itself.

 

[moco27]

Interesting....thanks for the vids, really helps to see.

Wonders how much the 'packing' in the goat area has to do mostly with the goats urinating..... and/or being heavier with bigger feet and/or not inclined to 'scratch' like chickens do rather than the hay itself.

I initially did straw in my coop and it acted the same way. I could never turn it. The only option was to add and then haul it out in the end. My goal was less work not more. The sawdust is work one day a year after it gets started. It's still work to get it started but worth it in the end. I do have another part of my barn that I use for storage that still has the straw in it only because I don't want to work that hard again to get it out. It's been 2 1/2 years since I did it and it's still a brick of poo and straw.

 

[rebrascora]

I have a block stone floor in one of my coops.... it's actually an old stone stable. I don't deep litter as such but was using a scattering of sawdust and a bit of straw. I found the clumping an issue with the straw too, however I saw a BIG change when I threw some grass cuttings in on top in the middle of summer. The smell was heavenly (new mown hay) for a week after each addition and of course I added more each week and the chickens worked through it and I think the combination of the moisture in the grass cuttings and the short length of it preventing matting and the chickens scratching through it because they liked it and perhaps the bacteria on the grass, all dramatically improved the system and there was only an inch or maybe 2 in some places, so not a huge depth, but as you say, for the most part it turned to a grey loose dust with no odour. I think straw would work better if it was chopped. My local farmer has a machine that chops and blows the straw into his sheds where the cattle are. I wonder if he could blow some into a corner somewhere for me to bag up. I do think straw on it's own may be too dry though and whilst I wouldn't consider watering it, the addition of naturally more "juicy" material like the grass cuttings may have helped. I am collecting leaves up at the moment and the chickens are loving scratching though them for bugs.

 

[Kusanar]

I think straw would work better if it was chopped. My local farmer has a machine that chops and blows the straw into his sheds where the cattle are. I wonder if he could blow some into a corner somewhere for me to bag up.

You can also spread the straw out some on your yard and run it over with a lawn mower a few times to chop it up. Then all you have to do is rake it up (or use a bagging mower) and put it in the coup.

 

[moco27]

I started deep litter several years ago using the methods that everyone claims to have had success using. It' didn't work for me, it smelled clumped/matted was a ton of work and didn't look like I was doing my chickens a service by using it. I tried straw first and noticed that it made a thick mat of poo under the roost especially. It was hard to remove and didn't break down at all.
I switched to sawdust and it was easier to work with but it still had a strong odor of ammonia after a week or two. I needed to rake it several times a week and it wasn't supposed to be like that. I have a 10 x 20 coop and at the time had about 200 chickens. I have a dump truck and would get my sawdust for free at a local saw mill. There are many sources of free sawdust almost everywhere. School wood shops, home depot, cabinet shops, woodworking shops, and many more. We changed the litter once a month like clockwork to keep the manure from overwhelming the coop. That's what the large broiler operations do and I don't like that system. I tried to add new litter once a week but that didn't work either.
I saw claims that it needed to be moist like compost. I tried that too and it stunk worse. I began to wonder if any of the folks that were claiming this was great actually used it.
One day in December my dump truck broke. I was forced to rake it daily for a few months. It smelled of ammonia, I installed an exhaust fan in the coop to make it safe for the chickens. I had piles under the roost and it didn't look good. I noticed that after a few months (it was winter) it was smelling less and there wasn't any poo buildup under the roost. The litter completely dried out turned gray and by March I didn't need to rake it at all.
By June I noticed the litter had reduced from about 6 inches to about 3 inches of thickness. I added another 6 inches of new sawdust and mixed the old sawdust with the new. I was amazed that the new bright yellow sawdust was gray by the next day. The deeper the better.
The hens pile it up against the coop door and it doesn't seem to rot the wood at all. The wood turned gray but isn't breaking down. I imagine it's because the litter is so dry.
In september I took half of the litter out and hauled it to the garden to be placed on the garden after the first frost.
The new sawdust was mixed in with the old and it worked flawlessly. During the winter it didn't stop working and stayed dry. I have not changed it in 14 months and counting. I am waiting this year until spring to remove half of it to see if I like that schedule better for the garden.
My litter has a colony of self sustaining mealworms and beetles living in it. Mine came in feed but you can buy them and put them deep into the litter and cover it with a small piece of plywood or something to give them a chance at first.

This is my recipe.

1. Use 8 inches of sawdust, hay, straw, leaves, pine shavings, and pine straw don't work nearly as well despite what everyone else says. This is not garden compost so don't treat it like garden compost.

2. Keep it dry. Only use it in a dry coop. Don't add any water ever and don't use it outside. It turns to stinky mud if it gets wet.

3. Turn it every day until it starts to work on it's own. You will go to the coop to turn it one day and it will dawn on you that it isn't necessary.

4. Start it in the warmer weather for faster results. It will work in colder weather once it matures but it takes longer to start in cold weather.

5. Never remove all of it. It's like sourdough starter, you need the mother.

6. Put the old litter in the garden. I have never had better planting medium. I had a tomato plant that grew an 11 inch leaf on this stuff. View attachment 1186606

7. Don't sanitize the coop, use chemicals or DE. You want to promote the growth of bacteria and other organisms to break down the manure.

8. Be patient and it will pay off. In the end you will have no coop litter maintenance except one day a year. It won't smell after it starts and it's always dry and loose.

Here is a video of a room in my barn that I used straw as deep litter. It clumped and matted right away. I added more to it like everyone says to do and I wound up with a solid pile of doo doo. It's old and has been composting for more than 2 years. It's still wet and smells of ammonia. The sawdust deep litter once it starts going never smells like ammonia, is never wet, and never clumps.

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=1482200141833729

 

[Molpet]

yes I do not like straw or hay for that reason.. for me a mix of free stuff works best.. the free 'sawdust' by me is from cabinet makers(pressboard, plywood). which has glue in it and not good for chooks.. Glad you can get good free sawdust and it works for you

 

[lazy gardener]

I have been DL in both coop and run for about 4 years. I am convinced that having a soil floor is very helpful. While you can DL on a wood or vinyl floor, it's just not as condusive. I tried DL with shavings and found that it did produce a fair amount of ammonia, so gave that up. My DL in the coop (on vinyl over plywood floor) consists of: mostly leaves, with the addition of grass clippings, garden weeds, and the occasional bale of hay. Re: use of hay and straw: if the materials that make up your DL are a mixture, you will not have as much matting. All leaves: they tend to eventually flatten into a locked up mat. Same with hay: creates a spaghetti tangle mat. Mix the two together, and add some other textured materials, and it is less likely to mat. No ammonia smells for the past 18 months. At the worst, it has a (to me) pleasant barn yard smell. Every year at this time I'm faced with a decision: reducing litter in the coop before things freeze solid for the winter, or leave the mountain in place, and hope that the mountain does not grow unmanageable before thaw!

I DL in the 500 s.f. run also. Started with wood chips, and have been adding leaves, grass clippings, weeds and old coop litter for 3 years now. My goal is to have the DL be a minimum of 6", but, even with addition of mountains of material, the stuff tends to melt into the soil. Only time there is any odor is when it's been raining for a long time. I really need more wood chips, but can't get them delivered. Shoveling them is doable, but... hard work.

Moco, you also ran your flock density higher than most of us do. I wonder if that has contributed to your success with sawdust. Your ratio of poo/sawdust is most likely higher than many of us experience. I can agree that sawdust would break down much better than shavings!

Agreed, it's all about getting the DL inoculated with aerobic bacteria, and keeping that population healthy. To that end, several years ago, when I tried my last ditch DL effort in the new coop, I dug up some compost that had not yet frozen, and added it to the DL under the perches. It must have helped, cause, my DL has been pretty functional since then.

While some DL masters claim that dry is best, others have found just the opposite result. Bee Kissed has been DL for years. Her coop is CP with soil floor. She has a very healthy DL, and will purposefully add water if things start to dry out. Somewhere on BYC, she has a video of her DL process and results. She uses a wide variety of materials, aiming for a blend of greens/browns, and multiple sizes/textures.

 

[lazy gardener]

I couldn't get Bee's video to post, but here's her post that links the video, and a pic of her DL. As stated above, she keeps her DL on the moist side.

https://www.backyardchickens.com/threads/deep-litter-method.70/page-214#post-17614733