Diarrhoea - not worms

MandS

Songster
8 Years
Apr 14, 2016
349
372
216
Berkshire, UK
Hi - this is a long post for which I apologise.

We have a couple of coups. One has only 4 birds in it, is large and until recently all has been well. I have given flubenvet back in early Jan as part of our normal 6 month de-worming regime. However about 7 weeks ago, one of our oldest hens, Flick (4 years old), became unwell. No diarrhoea but just very unhappy. She had poop samples taken - although a bit loose there was nothing to report. She then had a blood test and only some markers about cells that looked like they were defending against something - no bacterial infection. The vet said to give her time and for a while she picked up. She is now just hunched up with the occasional burst of energy when you give them treats (greens). He did say that he thought she had picked up a virus and that time would be the solution.

Then about 2 weeks ago, one of our rescue hens, Scarlett, started to have very runny poop. Her backside was caked and I cleaned her, took her to the vet and then, on his suggestion, just kept her clean. It didn't work. The whole of the cleaned area (her skin) was covered with white (urates?) and although she was full of energy and eating well, I took her back. She is now on antibiotics for a week. She's still fine, laying (but eggs discarded) and you wouldn't think anything is wrong. Her diarrhoea is subsiding but not totally gone.

However 3 days ago, I noticed one of the original chickens, Betty (3 years old - light sussex) had messy backside feathers. When I checked her yesterday, she was soaking and stank really badly - almost like cat poop. So she went to the vet today. She is very lethargic and hunched up. Her diarrhoea is very watery - just a mass of clear liquid and a few bits in it - lots of it and boy does it stink.

And here's the dilemma where I need advice.

We are in the UK. The vet was trying to get Baycox but was struggling. He was also told it is not easy to administer and so has changed his mind. So next on his list was Baytril, which he is ordering in for tomorrow. This guy is good and an avian specialist, but even he is struggling what to give because in the UK, these things are not licenced for laying birds. So if we give them this, we are not meant to eat the eggs - ever again (apparently). Clearly, we do not want this to happen. The thought of throwing eggs away for ever is not a good one.

So, please could anyone, particularly in the UK, give some advice. To those in the US or beyond, your advice is equally helpful, particularly if you think there is something we can do to treat her or calm the diarrhoea down. If you have any hunches as to what it might be, that would help. I told the vet I would be asking the community for help.

We are very concerned that this seems to be something affecting these birds in this cage as the other cage is OK. Also one of them has no signs at all.

Again, sorry for the long post.
 
The symptoms you describe for Betty are very indicative of 'vent gleet', a fungal infection of the cloaca. Thin, soaking diarrhea, smelly... Everyone mentions the smell, you mentioned it twice! So if it's fungal (yeast), then it needs an antifungal and not an antibiotic, which would make it worse. Sometimes they get this yeast infections as a side effect of an antibiotic course. Because the antibiotic kills all bacteria, even the good ones, and yeast then takes the opportunity to colonize.

On the other hand, infections of the cloaca can be bacterial in nature and then an antibiotic is necessary, metronidazole is usually mentioned as being effective.

The vet can run the tests and see what exactly is going on. But, a local bath and some antifungal like miconazole applied locally, inside and around the vent won't harm her even if it's bacterial in nature and you can get it easily. Please make sure she doesn't get an antibiotic unless it's a bacterial infection for sure.
 
Thanks. Does vent gleet spread from chicken to chicken?

I'll try this tomorrow. I have Canestan and have used that before on one of the girls a few years ago. It looks different because it is so runny but worth trying. She was not good tonight as she went to bed so I am hoping that I have time to treat before she gets too bad.

What pro-biotics would you suggest?
 
Hi - this is a long post for which I apologise.

We have a couple of coups. One has only 4 birds in it, is large and until recently all has been well. I have given flubenvet back in early Jan as part of our normal 6 month de-worming regime. However about 7 weeks ago, one of our oldest hens, Flick (4 years old), became unwell. No diarrhoea but just very unhappy. She had poop samples taken - although a bit loose there was nothing to report. She then had a blood test and only some markers about cells that looked like they were defending against something - no bacterial infection. The vet said to give her time and for a while she picked up. She is now just hunched up with the occasional burst of energy when you give them treats (greens). He did say that he thought she had picked up a virus and that time would be the solution.

Then about 2 weeks ago, one of our rescue hens, Scarlett, started to have very runny poop. Her backside was caked and I cleaned her, took her to the vet and then, on his suggestion, just kept her clean. It didn't work. The whole of the cleaned area (her skin) was covered with white (urates?) and although she was full of energy and eating well, I took her back. She is now on antibiotics for a week. She's still fine, laying (but eggs discarded) and you wouldn't think anything is wrong. Her diarrhoea is subsiding but not totally gone.

However 3 days ago, I noticed one of the original chickens, Betty (3 years old - light sussex) had messy backside feathers. When I checked her yesterday, she was soaking and stank really badly - almost like cat poop. So she went to the vet today. She is very lethargic and hunched up. Her diarrhoea is very watery - just a mass of clear liquid and a few bits in it - lots of it and boy does it stink.

And here's the dilemma where I need advice.

We are in the UK. The vet was trying to get Baycox but was struggling. He was also told it is not easy to administer and so has changed his mind. So next on his list was Baytril, which he is ordering in for tomorrow. This guy is good and an avian specialist, but even he is struggling what to give because in the UK, these things are not licenced for laying birds. So if we give them this, we are not meant to eat the eggs - ever again (apparently). Clearly, we do not want this to happen. The thought of throwing eggs away for ever is not a good one.

So, please could anyone, particularly in the UK, give some advice. To those in the US or beyond, your advice is equally helpful, particularly if you think there is something we can do to treat her or calm the diarrhoea down. If you have any hunches as to what it might be, that would help. I told the vet I would be asking the community for help.

We are very concerned that this seems to be something affecting these birds in this cage as the other cage is OK. Also one of them has no signs at all.

Again, sorry for the long post.
@staceyj @Eggcessive @Wyorp Rock @casportpony
 
What diagnosis has the vet that you have been seeing, think it is? You said he wanted to treat with Baycox, so does he think they have coccidiosis? Baycox is toltrazuril, and for treatment of coccidiosis. I would think he could diagnose this, whether it is a coccidiosis, fungal, or bacterial infection with lab work or a fecal test or culture.

Many people use Baytril with a long egg withdrawal. It is banned for chickens in the US, although it has been used in other countries. But many vets here prescribe it for reproductive infections, such as salpingitis or to prevent infection from eggs that have broken inside.
 
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It can spread if there is a roo involved, you know what I mean?

Plain yogurt (no sugar) and boiled egg for probiotics and sustenance in the form of protein, to overwhelm the yeast with a two-pronged attack , the antifungal and no more food it likes. If you have some unpasteurized apple cider vinegar, it has probiotics too. Not too much of their feed, it's best if what she eats is mostly protein.
 
Thanks. Helpful advice.

The vet hasn't a clear clue. When the faecal sample was done on Flick,there was nothing. Certainly no parasites and at that point he had ruled out coccidiosis. Then when another hen went down, and then another, it was me who said that I thought it might be something within that micro flock. I think he is then making the link to coccidiosis - although yesterday evening he called me and said that normally this is more of an issue in very young chickens, not older ones like we have.

Oddly enough, when Scarlett went in, she reminded me of one of our hens (from the other flock) who about 2 years ago had vent gleet. I only recognised it from the stuff I read on BYC. There I cleaned her up and treated with Canesten for about 3 days. Spreading it around the vent and a little inside her. She cleared up and never had it again. So I suggested this with Scarlett but he said it wasn't worth doing as it looked like an infection. So I didn't. I will be today though!

This morning Flick is just the same - she is scratchnig for food and running for treats but then after the fuss has died down, simply hunches up and stands around. If I am honest, she looks like a very tired old chicken.

Scarlett is her usual happy self - just dirty on the rear.

Betty is scratching around and is a bit more animated but her bottom is even more messy today. It is getting darker so whatever is coming out is possibly more solid and of a darker, less clear nature. I have not seen her standing around yet.

So, to you all: thanks. I will suggest to the vet that we avoid Baytril and try the antifungal approach. There are other antibiotics he could prescribe but their spectrum is much narrower than Baytril. I really do not want to have to discard eggs - it seems wrong and a waste of the poor chickens energy to produce them.

I'll keep a look out for any more suggestions on this thread and update as I go along.
 
Thanks. Helpful advice.

The vet hasn't a clear clue. When the faecal sample was done on Flick,there was nothing. Certainly no parasites and at that point he had ruled out coccidiosis. Then when another hen went down, and then another, it was me who said that I thought it might be something within that micro flock. I think he is then making the link to coccidiosis - although yesterday evening he called me and said that normally this is more of an issue in very young chickens, not older ones like we have.

Oddly enough, when Scarlett went in, she reminded me of one of our hens (from the other flock) who about 2 years ago had vent gleet. I only recognised it from the stuff I read on BYC. There I cleaned her up and treated with Canesten for about 3 days. Spreading it around the vent and a little inside her. She cleared up and never had it again. So I suggested this with Scarlett but he said it wasn't worth doing as it looked like an infection. So I didn't. I will be today though!

This morning Flick is just the same - she is scratchnig for food and running for treats but then after the fuss has died down, simply hunches up and stands around. If I am honest, she looks like a very tired old chicken.

Scarlett is her usual happy self - just dirty on the rear.

Betty is scratching around and is a bit more animated but her bottom is even more messy today. It is getting darker so whatever is coming out is possibly more solid and of a darker, less clear nature. I have not seen her standing around yet.

So, to you all: thanks. I will suggest to the vet that we avoid Baytril and try the antifungal approach. There are other antibiotics he could prescribe but their spectrum is much narrower than Baytril. I really do not want to have to discard eggs - it seems wrong and a waste of the poor chickens energy to produce them.

I'll keep a look out for any more suggestions on this thread and update as I go along.
It would not be counter indicated to treat for vent gleet even with the antibiotic. It's a topical treatment that you can do at home.


Also, in the 25 years that I worked as a vet tech the lesson I learned was that a fecal exam will only test positive if the organism in question is actively shedding eggs. Tests run during the dormant cycle of reproduction of intestinal parasites will read negative. Consider worming them in spite of the negative fecal exam. Good luck to you, you are trying so hard to help your flock!
 
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Having bathed Betty in warm water with Epsom Salts, she seemed to enjoy being cleaned. She is a bit more lively, scratching for food and re-establishing her pecking order. I put Canestan on her rear and a little in the vent opening, as we did with Nella a few years ago.

Plan is now to clean her daily and apply the cream (not sure if it's called the same elsewhere but it is an antifungal cream mainly used for treating thrush).

Fingers crossed. Will do both her and Scarlett tomorrow. Only had time to do one of them today as I had to go to work. But, overall, despite it only being done today, there looks to be improvement in her overall wellness.

By the way, I googled pictures of vent gleet. The pictures were exactly what she looks like.
 

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