Disturbing chick order

[3DFowlFarm]

Just some feed back to everyone who read this thread: TSC has adequately assured me they do not have or support a "let them die" policy. My local store staff got involved and the individual who "could not figure out how to cancel a computer order" has been re-trained and apologized for the misinfo. If I think anymore about hatcheries, my head is going to explode

 

[NatJ]

I‘m an anthropologist who has done research on these types of subjects. What happens to unsold chicks at places like that…. it really should be criminal. It’s all about greed, not about living animals. Very inhumane....I think “hatch-to-order” would ultimately be the best practice to avoid having to violently dispose of the huge excess of chicks that they irresponsibly hatch.

Have you actually ordered from hatcheries, or tried to? Because what you're saying does not match what I've observed.

I can go to the website for quite a few hatcheries, and order chicks now, to be shipped at a time of my choosing in the next several months. That means I CAN order chicks from eggs that are not even laid yet, and the hatchery will set the eggs at the right time to hatch those chicks for me.

I usually find that chicks for the nearest hatch date (already in the incubator) are "sold out," or very few are available. (Exception: there may be sales on a few breeds that had a better-than-average rate of development during incubation.)

In order to fill all the orders, they have to hatch a few extra chicks of each breed (in case a few don't hatch, or in case the balance of male/female is a bit off.) But the hatcheries sell the extra chicks too, usually by grouping them into "assortments."

Even if it is "all about greed," they would not hatch a "huge excess" of chicks, because that is expensive. They have to pay for the eggs, pay to have bigger incubators, pay for the power to run the incubators, pay for people to tend the incubators, and pay for people to take the chicks out of the incubators (to box them for sale or to dispose of them.) All of those costs are a complete LOSS to the company if the chicks are not sold. So purely from a profit motive, they are motivated to sell as many as possible of the chicks they hatch, while disposing of the smallest possible number.

 

[WoDia]

Have you actually ordered from hatcheries, or tried to? Because what you're saying does not match what I've observed.

I can go to the website for quite a few hatcheries, and order chicks now, to be shipped at a time of my choosing in the next several months. That means I CAN order chicks from eggs that are not even laid yet, and the hatchery will set the eggs at the right time to hatch those chicks for me.

I usually find that chicks for the nearest hatch date (already in the incubator) are "sold out," or very few are available. (Exception: there may be sales on a few breeds that had a better-than-average rate of development during incubation.)

In order to fill all the orders, they have to hatch a few extra chicks of each breed (in case a few don't hatch, or in case the balance of male/female is a bit off.) But the hatcheries sell the extra chicks too, usually by grouping them into "assortments."

Even if it is "all about greed," they would not hatch a "huge excess" of chicks, because that is expensive. They have to pay for the eggs, pay to have bigger incubators, pay for the power to run the incubators, pay for people to tend the incubators, and pay for people to take the chicks out of the incubators (to box them for sale or to dispose of them.) All of those costs are a complete LOSS to the company if the chicks are not sold. So purely from a profit motive, they are motivated to sell as many as possible of the chicks they hatch, while disposing of the smallest possible number.

While that may be true in your experience, do you’re own deeper research. You may be surprised. I support the “hatch to order” idea.

 

[JacinLarkwell]

Have you actually ordered from hatcheries, or tried to? Because what you're saying does not match what I've observed.

I can go to the website for quite a few hatcheries, and order chicks now, to be shipped at a time of my choosing in the next several months. That means I CAN order chicks from eggs that are not even laid yet, and the hatchery will set the eggs at the right time to hatch those chicks for me.

I usually find that chicks for the nearest hatch date (already in the incubator) are "sold out," or very few are available. (Exception: there may be sales on a few breeds that had a better-than-average rate of development during incubation.)

In order to fill all the orders, they have to hatch a few extra chicks of each breed (in case a few don't hatch, or in case the balance of male/female is a bit off.) But the hatcheries sell the extra chicks too, usually by grouping them into "assortments."

Even if it is "all about greed," they would not hatch a "huge excess" of chicks, because that is expensive. They have to pay for the eggs, pay to have bigger incubators, pay for the power to run the incubators, pay for people to tend the incubators, and pay for people to take the chicks out of the incubators (to box them for sale or to dispose of them.) All of those costs are a complete LOSS to the company if the chicks are not sold. So purely from a profit motive, they are motivated to sell as many as possible of the chicks they hatch, while disposing of the smallest possible number.

Not to mention a lot of people seem to get male chicks as their packing peanuts, which helps cut down on the male chicks that dont get sold

 

[NatJ]

While that may be true in your experience, do you’re own deeper research. You may be surprised.

Do you recommend any particular sources?

I'm judging by my own personal experience, yes.
But I'm also judging by the experiences many other people report here.
And I've read what the hatcheries say on their own websites.
And I've read what they send out in emails when the Post Office refuses to accept chicks due to bad weather, and they are suddenly left with many more chicks than usual (which helps clarify what "usual" is for them.)
And I've read information on various state cooperative extension websites and similar sources (about ordering from hatcheries, and about how to run hatcheries.)
And I've read the websites of some incubator manufacturers (including ones that make hatchery-sized units.)
And I've read websites from some companies that produce the parent stock for popular hybrids, and give advice on the hatching & selling of them.
And I know at least a little bit about supply and demand, and about what makes a company profitable. (Hint: wasting resources to hatch chicks & then kill them does not help profits.)
I'm pretty sure I've read some other sources too, but this is what I can remember just off the top of my head.

So if you have particular resources to recommend, that I haven't already consulted, I'd be interested to learn what they are.

I support the “hatch to order” idea.

I have nothing against that idea, but can you tell me how it differs from what the hatcheries already do?

 

[Beer can]

I think “hatch-to-order” would ultimately be the best practice

That is a great idea!!! Hatch-to-order, yes!

Sand Hill Preservation Center is the only 'hatchery' that I'm aware of that does this. Which causes some frustration/confusion/angry customers that didn't read their FAQs.
They do not sex chicks, and they only hatch to order, min is 25 chicks so they have a better chance of staying warm and arrive alive.
I ordered white jersey giants, they have a max of 10 on them so ordered langshans also. Couple months after the hatch date I selected I called them and they explained they were having trouble completing the langshan part of the order. I told them I was most concerned with getting the JGs and would take any other breed to fulfill their 25min. Few weeks later they arrived.
Ten JGs, one Langshan, one Manx Rumpie, and ten Red Sussex (which only made 22 but I didn't complain Lol)

From their site;
"13. Patience
*Please remember we are not a 24 hour fast food place where you can order and expect service immediately. We are doing this as a hobby business service and we work as fast and efficiently as the time allows. We cannot guarantee specific hatch dates as we cannot guarantee the hatch rate or laying rate of each of the many breeds that we have. We set up and process the orders in the order in which we receive them in the mail. If you are impatient and absolutely have to have something by a certain date, please do us and yourself a favor and order from somewhere else. We realize the above statement seems cold and harsh, but we are simply not able to deal with filling chick orders at the spur of the moment. We are at the mercy of the birds and there isn’t anything that we can do to change that. WE RESERVE THE RIGHT TO REFUSE SERVICE TO ANYONE FOR ANY REASON. "

 

[JacinLarkwell]

Hatch-to-order sounds great, and probably works for smaller sellers, but what happens if you have say, 300 leghorn pullet chicks ordered by 70 people for a specific date and that hatch either fails to develop mostly or is male heavy? While it works out sometimes, it could also not work for a lot of people since most orders can't just wait for a successful hatch to happen, they need them in a specific timeframe

 

[Henhouse Harlot]

Sand Hill Preservation Center is the only 'hatchery' that I'm aware of that does this. Which causes some frustration/confusion/angry customers that didn't read their FAQs.
They do not sex chicks, and they only hatch to order, min is 25 chicks so they have a better chance of staying warm and arrive alive.
I ordered white jersey giants, they have a max of 10 on them so ordered langshans also. Couple months after the hatch date I selected I called them and they explained they were having trouble completing the langshan part of the order. I told them I was most concerned with getting the JGs and would take any other breed to fulfill their 25min. Few weeks later they arrived.
Ten JGs, one Langshan, one Manx Rumpie, and ten Red Sussex (which only made 22 but I didn't complain Lol)

From their site;
"13. Patience
*Please remember we are not a 24 hour fast food place where you can order and expect service immediately. We are doing this as a hobby business service and we work as fast and efficiently as the time allows. We cannot guarantee specific hatch dates as we cannot guarantee the hatch rate or laying rate of each of the many breeds that we have. We set up and process the orders in the order in which we receive them in the mail. If you are impatient and absolutely have to have something by a certain date, please do us and yourself a favor and order from somewhere else. We realize the above statement seems cold and harsh, but we are simply not able to deal with filling chick orders at the spur of the moment. We are at the mercy of the birds and there isn’t anything that we can do to change that. WE RESERVE THE RIGHT TO REFUSE SERVICE TO ANYONE FOR ANY REASON. "

I hadn't thought of all that, thank you! Reading the "small print" IS important!

 

[Henhouse Harlot]

Hatch-to-order sounds great, and probably works for smaller sellers, but what happens if you have say, 300 leghorn pullet chicks ordered by 70 people for a specific date and that hatch either fails to develop mostly or is male heavy? While it works out sometimes, it could also not work for a lot of people since most orders can't just wait for a successful hatch to happen, they need them in a specific timeframe

You're right, sadly.

 

[JacinLarkwell]

I have a breeder/hatchery that I'm expecting an order from that does hatch to order on their araucana chicks, but that's just because they would rather not waste incubator space on a hard to hatch breed unless they have people interested in them