Yes, the Woods style is often misunderstood.
Ok, I started at the beginning but got alot to catch up with so jumped to the back to add my 2 cents .... I used to allow my chickens to roam the backyard, fenced and in a residential area. Then had a hawk swoop down on them a few times, they made it to safety. The neighbors dogs would sit at the fence watching, once one of my girls attempted to fly over, thinking the grass was greener, luckily she's "heavy" & didn't get enough lift. One set of chickens (4) dug up the backyard so bad, it was like pot holes so came up with this idea ... An enclosure (8x12x7) that they'd be confined 24/7 yet have all the ventilation & exposure they needed yet safe. Works for me & fine tuned it for the first year as needed. I love it, they're content (4BOs), they dust bathe, get est 3.5 eggs a day, no stink (modified DLM, poop board, PDZ &FF)....
Ok... I have read most of this and I am going against the group and saying NO chickens do not need a run. I think that to be successful raising healthy chickens WITHOUT a run we do however need to adjust our expectations of a chicken coop. Many plants and crops are grown exclusively indoors and are arguably more productive, bigger, healthier for it, whether these are food crops or for landscaping or other. We even have indoor ski resorts. Building construction, ventilation (look at casinos!), waste management, and indoor climate control have come a long way and we have the ability to create some truly amazing environments in an artificial or indoor setting. I see no reason why a chicken couldn't successfully be raised 100% indoors with full spectrum lighting and even access to live vegetation and scratching around on real dirt if you want to go the extra mile. Many reasons others have cited for allowing chickens outdoors involve the feelings and emotions of the chickens which may or may not be accurate at all. Look how "happy" the chickens are... can chickens even feel happy? are they just following survival instincts scratching around in the dirt for bugs or dust bathing? I know if my chickens were indoors I'd have less rodents and less wild birds around my property, less of their waste, less of their parasites, perhaps in a well managed indoor environment my chickens would actually be healthier, less exposure to the wildlife, but also a climate controlled environment, less stress from extreme weather, less stress to the immune system, safer from predators. Would my chickens be healthy if they were confined in their existing coop as it stands 24/7, probably not, it would need modification for sure, but why not have a state of the art indoor environment for them? hmm...
@PirateGirl to answer your question “Cost Prohibitions”, I agree... runs aren’t “needed”, commercial chicken barns prove that runs are “unnecessary” for chicken management and survival. And a full blown chicken utopia could be created in a completely enclosed space. Proper ventilation, full spectrum lighting, indoor plantings of forage...
I have a decade of experience in indoor gardening and hydroponics, and trust me it’s a lot harder to set up and maintain a closed system than it seems. The costs for infrastructure, the lighting and ventilation are not insignificant, and would never be recouped with the chickens alone. And then there’s the maintenance costs of electricity to run it all.
I think the size alone of adequately housing a decent number (10-15) of chickens inside full time in what would be considered humane conditions is cost prohibitive to the average chicken keeper. I’m currently trying to improve the living conditions of some fully confined birds (in inadequate space) and can say if done incorrectly there is nothing redeemable about full time confinement!
So for partial confinement coop and run the math is 4sq feet per bird/coop and 10 per bird/run? So I would say 15-20sq feet/bird if you were aiming for the benefits of a coop/run without the run portion? (These numbers might be way off, I’m just guessing from what I’ve read and don’t have much chicken experience yet) And to provide adequate ventilation and light... coop/run seems like it would be cheaper to build and maintain in the long run.
Just my thoughts on it. But, if I ever win the lottery... Giant chicken dome! See how it would work out!
I have a decade of experience in indoor gardening and hydroponics, and trust me it’s a lot harder to set up and maintain a closed system than it seems. The costs for infrastructure, the lighting and ventilation are not insignificant, and would never be recouped with the chickens alone. And then there’s the maintenance costs of electricity to run it all.
I think the size alone of adequately housing a decent number (10-15) of chickens inside full time in what would be considered humane conditions is cost prohibitive to the average chicken keeper. I’m currently trying to improve the living conditions of some fully confined birds (in inadequate space) and can say if done incorrectly there is nothing redeemable about full time confinement!
So for partial confinement coop and run the math is 4sq feet per bird/coop and 10 per bird/run? So I would say 15-20sq feet/bird if you were aiming for the benefits of a coop/run without the run portion? (These numbers might be way off, I’m just guessing from what I’ve read and don’t have much chicken experience yet) And to provide adequate ventilation and light... coop/run seems like it would be cheaper to build and maintain in the long run.
Just my thoughts on it. But, if I ever win the lottery... Giant chicken dome! See how it would work out!
Oh, definitely cheaper to build something that has no electricity, no heat, no ac, etc. As another poster mentioned, even building a large run is significantly cheaper than building a larger coop!
Another factor when deciding how to house your chickens also perhaps should be the purpose of your chickens, meat chickens vs. layers vs. show birds vs. breeding stock all have their unique needs for optimal performance/production. Yes, the basic needs, are the same (food/water/shelter), but to provide housing based on the purpose of your flock would be mutually beneficial.
Oh my, do a quick google image search for BIODOME to see some that have already been built, amazing!
MissChick@dee
~ Dreaming Of Springtime ~
To me it comes down to value and lifestyle.
There are chickens raised for meat and those that are pets and a combination of both in between.
Does someone who raises chickens for meat have a different value and lifestyle than pet owners? I think so.
Mine are pets in every sense of the word. I considered their quality of life mentally and physicaly. They have an extreme value to me far and beyond what I originally paid for them. My run keeps them safe. It’s ample enough in size for when I need to contain them yet they have sunshine fresh air and can behave like chickens digging, scratching & so on.
I let them out free to choose when I am home and more often then not right with them.
I couldn’t see having a chicken that was confined to a coop only. My dogs have a dog door. But the door leads to a fenced yard. I would not keep my dogs in a crate or large box or forever inside or completely outside.
I hold my pets in high value and consider their well being both physically and mentally.
It fits my lifestyle.
There are chickens raised for meat and those that are pets and a combination of both in between.
Does someone who raises chickens for meat have a different value and lifestyle than pet owners? I think so.
Mine are pets in every sense of the word. I considered their quality of life mentally and physicaly. They have an extreme value to me far and beyond what I originally paid for them. My run keeps them safe. It’s ample enough in size for when I need to contain them yet they have sunshine fresh air and can behave like chickens digging, scratching & so on.
I let them out free to choose when I am home and more often then not right with them.
I couldn’t see having a chicken that was confined to a coop only. My dogs have a dog door. But the door leads to a fenced yard. I would not keep my dogs in a crate or large box or forever inside or completely outside.
I hold my pets in high value and consider their well being both physically and mentally.
It fits my lifestyle.
Cy, I fear this post will be long, but the short answer to your question is NO, they don't need a run.
For the longer answer, Large producers believe a fully closed system, all in all out is much more protected from potential diseases. And those systems are very complicated, very expensive and involve husbandry methods many of us detest. But it doesn't make it wrong, just different.
Professional pastured poultry producers typically use their layers for pasture maintenance with the benefit of eggs for sale. Number of birds are sized based upon paddock size and the chickens follow the cattle by three days so they can remove fly larvae from the manure and spread it around the pasture. The housing for these girls varies as widely as it does in backyard flocks with the only common denominator being it's mobile. They are routinely kept inside portable electronet, with a 10' DMZ between the woods and the fence. As a general rule of thumb, these birds get two full laying seasons, before going to freezer camp or the breed pens (most breed for survival instincts). It's also common to house the layers over winter in a greenhouse. But that varies widely too.
One day I hope to grow up and become a professional pastured poultry grower, but have a long way to go. Today my BH breeders are in an old style coop and run. It came with the property. My RIW breeders, turkeys and duck breeders live in a 20X60 greenhouse. My layers are in the upper pasture and live in 15X8 hoop houses, ducks are in a 10X10 duck house, and a few of the older birds are in a coop that only holds ten (my first coop). All of these shelters are inside an electronet fence with a 1 joule solar energizer. In the mornings when we let them out, it looks like the great escape. Most fly right over the electric fence and go to foraging. They wander about the woods and the pastures doing what chickens do. I've added an LGD to the equation and that has seriously reduced losses. He patrols at night and early morning. I have 15-20 birds that refuse to go into their houses at night and like to sleep in trees. So far the Turkeys have done a nice job of keeping aerial predators at bay. Last year I did lose a rooster to a barred owl, but the turkeys ate the barred owl. Haven't had an aerial predator attack since.
So there are a lot of variables in play starting with flock mix, breeds, etc. Then enters personal beliefs of what's best for the birds. In the end, I believe it's a truly personal choice.
For the longer answer, Large producers believe a fully closed system, all in all out is much more protected from potential diseases. And those systems are very complicated, very expensive and involve husbandry methods many of us detest. But it doesn't make it wrong, just different.
Professional pastured poultry producers typically use their layers for pasture maintenance with the benefit of eggs for sale. Number of birds are sized based upon paddock size and the chickens follow the cattle by three days so they can remove fly larvae from the manure and spread it around the pasture. The housing for these girls varies as widely as it does in backyard flocks with the only common denominator being it's mobile. They are routinely kept inside portable electronet, with a 10' DMZ between the woods and the fence. As a general rule of thumb, these birds get two full laying seasons, before going to freezer camp or the breed pens (most breed for survival instincts). It's also common to house the layers over winter in a greenhouse. But that varies widely too.
One day I hope to grow up and become a professional pastured poultry grower, but have a long way to go. Today my BH breeders are in an old style coop and run. It came with the property. My RIW breeders, turkeys and duck breeders live in a 20X60 greenhouse. My layers are in the upper pasture and live in 15X8 hoop houses, ducks are in a 10X10 duck house, and a few of the older birds are in a coop that only holds ten (my first coop). All of these shelters are inside an electronet fence with a 1 joule solar energizer. In the mornings when we let them out, it looks like the great escape. Most fly right over the electric fence and go to foraging. They wander about the woods and the pastures doing what chickens do. I've added an LGD to the equation and that has seriously reduced losses. He patrols at night and early morning. I have 15-20 birds that refuse to go into their houses at night and like to sleep in trees. So far the Turkeys have done a nice job of keeping aerial predators at bay. Last year I did lose a rooster to a barred owl, but the turkeys ate the barred owl. Haven't had an aerial predator attack since.
So there are a lot of variables in play starting with flock mix, breeds, etc. Then enters personal beliefs of what's best for the birds. In the end, I believe it's a truly personal choice.
Wendy Case
Songster
Yep. It's whatever is right and works for a person for sure!
Well, no a Woods is a Woods, very specific...
...what 'works for a person' might not be a true Woods.
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