Do I Say Something or Is It Better To Say Nothing? Re: Vulture Hocks

[Ruthster55]

A well-known Brahma breeder who will remain anonymous posted this picture of a chick on Facebook.

I was shocked that this breeder would advertise this chick as anything favorable whatsoever. It has vulture hocks, doesn't it?

If what I'm seeing is just soft feathering, I will delete this post out of embarrassment. The feathers look soft now, but I think they will become quill-like as this chick gets older.

Since I posted this, I deduced that the breeder is using the British Poultry Standards rather than the APA Standard of Perfection.

I am aware that vulture hocks are permitted in Brahmas shown in Europe and the UK. However, vulture hocks in Brahmas are a disqualification in the United States.

Several people on FB were oohing and aahing over this chick, whereas I wanted to say that I saw a problem. I held my tongue, though. Who am I to say this?

If I were breeding to the APA Standard, this chick would be sold cheap or given away as a pet chicken for an all-hen city flock. I would prefer to wait to make sure it's a pullet, and then rehome it to a small urban or suburban egg/pet flock.

By the British Poultry Standards, this chick is fine.

Just for reference, I put a picture of a D'Uccle below showing its (proper) vulture hocks.

 

[Ruthster55]

Ha yes, I'm sure it wont.

Yep, I'm in Ireland. I only have a few show standards at the moment, but the are to british standards yes.

The breeders said this one's a keeper. Seriously.

 

[Amer]

Is the breeder breeding to the SOP? Many brahma breeders breed beautiful pets in many colors that will never see a show hall. If that breeder isn’t breeding buff, light, or dark Brahmas for the purpose of showing, I wouldn’t worry about it. Sometimes ignorance is bliss.
If that breeder does care about the SOP which might be the case since it looks like a buff Brahma chick, I would alert them of the issue.

 

[EmmaRainboe]

A well-known Brahma breeder who will remain anonymous posted this picture of a chick on Facebook.

I was shocked that this breeder would advertise this chick as anything favorable whatsoever. It has vulture hocks, doesn't it?

If what I'm seeing is just soft feathering, I will delete this post out of embarrassment. The feathers look soft now, but I think they will become quill-like as this chick gets older.

I am aware that vulture hocks are permitted in Brahmas shown in Europe and the UK. However, vulture hocks in Brahmas are a disqualification in the United States.

Several people on FB were oohing and aahing over this chick, whereas I wanted to say that I saw a problem. I held my tongue, though. Who am I to say this?

If this chick came out of my yard, it would either go in the stew pot or would be sold cheap or given away as a pet chicken for an all-hen city flock. I would prefer to wait to make sure it's a pullet, and then rehome it to a small urban or suburban egg/pet flock.

Just for reference, I put a picture of a D'Uccle below showing its (proper) vulture hocks.

View attachment 2413245

View attachment 2413263

I personally love that chick! I love the look of the vulture hocks but I don't show birds. If I did show birds it might be a problem but I don't think it's a problem for the average backyard chicken keeper. I wouldn't mind having it in my own flock

 

[Ruthster55]

The breeder might not care about creating show birds, she might be focusing more on creating lovable birds for people to enjoy.

This is probably the case to some extent, but the adult Rooster from the second breeder looks show-quality to me.

These two breeders have people ask over and over again on FB if they have any birds for sale. They typically do not, which indicates that the demand for these birds is high. Most of the people who buy them won't show them. Fluffy Brahmas are indeed adorbs!

 

[Ruthster55]

Did you ask if they breed their birds to a standard?

The second breeder has posted that they use a standard. In my comment on FB, I referenced the difference between the British Poultry Standards and the APA Standard, so that was a way of asking whether they use a standard.

In other words, I believe that both breeders use a standard, which is likely the British one.

By the way, I believe the British Poultry Standards are a little bit more forgiving in some ways than the APA Standard of Perfection.

Not just on this issue, but the British Poultry Standards include some breeds that aren't in the APA Standard. They include the British autosexing breeds like the Cambar, Rhodebar etc.

Ayam Cemani are included in the British Standards. I might be wrong if they have been included recently, but I don't think that Ayams are in the APA Standard.

 

[Amer]

Ah, I see. If they are in fact breeding towards the British standard, which accepts the vulture hocks, then I don't see a problem. Is this breeder in the U.S.?

Northern South America. The American Standard of Perfection applies to all of North America but I don’t know what applies in South America.

 

[Amer]

I'm actually an expat.

Poultry shows aren't super common here, especially not this year. Of course, there is an exposition or two aimed at industrial producers of meat and eggs, but that's another subject.

However, there are plenty of people who have chickens of various breeds and allow them to mate, with varying results. The year-round climate helps this.

There is a place that is bringing some rare breeds into the country. https://www.gallinasraras.com/catalogo-de-aves
If you look at the Plymouth Rock on that page, you'll see that it's a good one, even though Barred Plymouth Rocks aren't a rare breed.

Another person has an interesting project with blue eggs. She only selects the eggs and incubates the blue ones. The chickens that result are of all colors and appearances, but around 80% lay blue eggs!

I’m not surprised to hear that, we have a few expats on here. That site looks fascinating, I’ll definitely have to check it out.

 

[Amer]

I looked at the site. It’s interesting because I’m studying Spanish right now. I noticed the Cochins and Rocks and Sussex are very high quality though some of the others are hatchery quality.

 

[Ruthster55]

Is the breeder breeding to the SOP? Many brahma breeders breed beautiful pets in many colors that will never see a show hall. If that breeder isn’t breeding buff, light, or dark Brahmas for the purpose of showing, I wouldn’t worry about it. Sometimes ignorance is bliss.
If that breeder does care about the SOP which might be the case since it looks like a buff Brahma chick, I would alert them of the issue.

Unfortunately, I don't really know how this breeder does their program or their goals.

A second breeder in the same general area has some really nice Brahmas. This one is awesome!! I believe the second breeder goes by a Standard, as they have mentioned it. Not sure whether they use the British Poultry Standards or the US SOP. (I figured it out now - see below).

A lot of people ask each of these two breeders if they have birds for sale. They usually do not have any stock for sale.
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