Do I Say Something or Is It Better To Say Nothing? Re: Vulture Hocks

[Ruthster55]

Cool! I’ll try to remember that.

What do you mean? All feather-legged birds have hock feathers, but those ones don’t look stiff and long to me.

I believe that what happens is when the floof is heavily favored, some birds will come out with vulture hocks.

In my mind, this adult Brahma rooster is a very good example. He has feathers in that spot, but they are soft and fluffy rather than obvious quill-feathers.

 

[ChocolateMouse]

Another person has an interesting project with blue eggs. She only selects the eggs and incubates the blue ones. The chickens that result are of all colors and appearances, but around 80% lay blue eggs!

I know you're in another country so maybe they are rare, but isn't that just an easter egger then?
And if she's selecting for blue eggs, it's a simple dominant. You should be able to get 100% blue egg layers in about 1 year time - it should not be a long project.

Just seems strange to me for that to be particularly special.

 

[Ruthster55]

I know you're in another country so maybe they are rare, but isn't that just an easter egger then?
And if she's selecting for blue eggs, it's a simple dominant. You should be able to get 100% blue egg layers in about 1 year time - it should not be a long project.

Just seems strange to me for that to be particularly special.

Good point on the simple dominant regarding blue. The problem is that so many breeds of chickens lay brown eggs....think hatchery Barred Plymouth Rocks or whatever.

They call mutt chickens here Criollos, and the eggs are valued because they are seen as farm or maybe even free-range. Multiple egg colors are a plus for sure.

I believe the person involved is also selecting eggs for the most intense blue possible.

There are relatively few white egg layers here. Leghorns or hybrids are used in a small part of the commercial business here, while other Mediterranean breeds like Anconas or Spanish or Minorcas are unheard of.

Am aware that a green egg layer with a Leghorn etc. rooster may throw blue egg layers.

I might need to ask about the intense blue eggs this person advertises and make sure she’s not a Photoshop expert heehee.

 

[Ruthster55]

The second breeder (the one that I know follows a Standard and has some great Brahmas) just piped in and said that the chick is "spectacular" and will be great for breeding...
That's by the APA Standard of Perfection, but it's OK if we're going by the British Poultry Standards.

It's pretty clear to deduce that the Brahma breeders in my location (not the UK) are using the British Poultry Standards rather than the APA Standard of Perfection.

That's OK. It's good to be able to figure out what Standards chicken breeders here use, and the vulture hocks being OK here was remarkably diagnostic.

The British Poultry Standards say this in regard to Brahmas:

"Legs and feet: Legs moderately long, powerful, well apart and feathered. Thighs large and covered in front by the lower breast feathers. Fluff soft, abundant, covering the hind parts, and standing out behind the thighs. Hocks amply covered with soft rounded feathers, or with quill feathers provided they are accompanied with proportionately heavy shank and foot feathering. Shank feather profuse, standing well out from legs and toes, extending under the hock feathers and to the extremity of the middle and outer toes, profuse leg and foot feather without vulture hock being desirable. Toes four, straight and spreading."

As can be seen, vulture hocks are not a defect under the British Standards, and no points would be taken off in a show. However, the "desirable" statement probably means that if there were two otherwise equal-merit birds at a show, the one without vulture hocks would place ahead of the one with vulture hocks.

 

[SulkyBantam]

I don't know about you, but I don't like it when a perfectly good bird is deemed 'useless' because of one feature.

Of course, your suggestion is a v. good one. It would make a good pet. I think we should encourage people to make them pets, not meals, when they are not perfect!

 

[HappyDuckie]

Did you ask if they breed their birds to a standard?

 

[HappyDuckie]

The second breeder has posted that they use a standard. In my comment on FB, I referenced the difference between the British Poultry Standards and the APA Standard, so that was a way of asking whether they use a standard.

In other words, I believe that both breeders use a standard, which is likely the British one.

By the way, I believe the British Poultry Standards are a little bit more forgiving in some ways than the APA Standard of Perfection.

Not just on this issue, but the British Poultry Standards include some breeds that aren't in the APA Standard. They include the British autosexing breeds like the Cambar, Rhodebar etc.

Ayam Cemani are included in the British Standards. I might be wrong if they have been included recently, but I don't think that Ayams are in the APA Standard.

Ah, I see. If they are in fact breeding towards the British standard, which accepts the vulture hocks, then I don't see a problem. Is this breeder in the U.S.?

 

[MysteryChicken]

Cool! I’ll try to remember that.

What do you mean? All feather-legged birds have hock feathers, but those ones don’t look stiff and long to me.

Not all feather legged birds have hock feathers, here's my Brahmas. I'm down to 3. One had a horribly suppressed immune system, & died recently due to a worm overload. I tried getting rid of the worms, but her body couldn't handle the stress, & passed away during the night.(Word of Advice, Don't Buy Brahma Chicks From TSC) Their gene pool seems limited.

The one with straggly feathers is the one with the weak immune system.