Do I want to learn about genetics? Yes. Is it very intimidating and scary? Yes.

[FuzzyCritters]

Ohhhhh Thank you! Would it be the same for other recessive genes, like recessive white? Like White+/White+ would mean the bird doesn't carry recessive white?

Yup, exactly the same. (The name of recessive white is c and not recessive white is C+ .)

 

[EmmaRainboe]

Yup, exactly the same. (The name of recessive white is c and not recessive white is C+ .)

Thank you! Didn't know what it would be so I just wrote it out

 

[EmmaRainboe]

This might be a big question cause I have heard about how confusing it is, What is the difference between dominant and recessive white? Do they look different? Or is one just recessive and the other dominant?

 

[FuzzyCritters]

This might be a big question cause I have heard about how confusing it is, What is the difference between dominant and recessive white? Do they look different? Or is one just recessive and the other dominant?

They are on a different locus from each other. Recessive white is on the "C" locus, and dominant white is on the "I" locus. They also behave differently.

Recessive white covers the whole chicken. No matter what other genes the chicken has, the chicken will be solid white with c/c.

Dominant white only covers black pigment, not red pigment. A solid white chicken with dominant white would be a solid black chicken if it didn't have dominant white. An example showing how dominant white doesn't turn red pigment white would be a hatchery red sex link chicken (leghorn x RIR). The RSL inherits dominant white from the leghorn parent and red coloring from the RIR, and is a red chicken with a white tail and neck. The dominant white turns the otherwise black neck and tail white, but the red coloring is unaffected.

 

[Shezadandy]

If you're trying to code something for one of those little codes, how do you know what's what? Is there a universal rule that says + means split, - means whatever, () means whatever, or does it vary bird to bird?

A good starting book on all that is:

Amazon.com: An Introduction to Color Forms of the Domestic Fowl: A Look at Color Varieties and How They Are Made (9781425904210): Reeder, Brian: Books

 

[EmmaRainboe]

I've watched a video about lacing and read a few articles, but I'm still pretty confused. How is the color of the lacing determined and the color inside the lacing? Is it like the recessive gene makes the lacing and the dominant creates the filling or how in the world does that work? Is lacing a dominant trait? Would this be called blue laced red or something?

Also @black_cat sorry if I'm stealing your thread

 

[FuzzyCritters]

I've watched a video about lacing and read a few articles, but I'm still pretty confused. How is the color of the lacing determined and the color inside the lacing? Is it like the recessive gene makes the lacing and the dominant creates the filling or how in the world does that work? Is lacing a dominant trait? Would this be called blue laced red or something? View attachment 2443091


Also @black_cat sorry if I'm stealing your thread

Lacing is pretty complicated... I'll try to explain it as best I can but I don't know everything about it.

I'll start with the lacing pattern. Sebright/Wyandotte lacing is controlled by 4 genes. Here is the genetic makeup of a laced bird:
e^b/e^b (partridge), Co/Co (columbian), Ml/Ml (melanised), Pg/Pg (laced).
Partridge is the only recessive gene, the rest are dominant.

Changing columbian to co+/co+ (not-columbian) changes the lacing to double lacing, like seen on Barnevelders. Changing columbian to co+/co+ and changing melanised to ml+/ml+ (not melanised) makes the lacing into pencilling.

The lacing border is black if there are no other genes affecting it. Genes that affect black pigment only affect the lacing color. Blue can be used to change the lacing color because blue changes black pigment only. Dominant white can be used to change the lacing color as well since it only affects black. Buff laced polish have white lacing because of dominant white.

I admit I don't know that much about the filling of the lacing... I guess it's controlled by the base color of the bird? I know that genes that affect red control the filling color, but that's about all I know.

For the color of the chickens in the picture, maybe it's called blue double laced red? Never seen that color in double laced birds (just single laced wyandottes), but it sure is pretty

 

[EmmaRainboe]

Lacing is pretty complicated... I'll try to explain it as best I can but I don't know everything about it.

I'll start with the lacing pattern. Sebright/Wyandotte lacing is controlled by 4 genes. Here is the genetic makeup of a laced bird:
e^b/e^b (partridge), Co/Co (columbian), Ml/Ml (melanised), Pg/Pg (laced).
Partridge is the only recessive gene, the rest are dominant.

Changing columbian to co+/co+ (not-columbian) changes the lacing to double lacing, like seen on Barnevelders. Changing columbian to co+/co+ and changing melanised to ml+/ml+ (not melanised) makes the lacing into pencilling.

The lacing border is black if there are no other genes affecting it. Genes that affect black pigment only affect the lacing color. Blue can be used to change the lacing color because blue changes black pigment only. Dominant white can be used to change the lacing color as well since it only affects black. Buff laced polish have white lacing because of dominant white.

I admit I don't know that much about the filling of the lacing... I guess it's controlled by the base color of the bird? I know that genes that affect red control the filling color, but that's about all I know.

For the color of the chickens in the picture, maybe it's called blue double laced red? Never seen that color in double laced birds (just single laced wyandottes), but it sure is pretty

Very helpful! Thank you so much!

 

[black_cat]

I've watched a video about lacing and read a few articles, but I'm still pretty confused. How is the color of the lacing determined and the color inside the lacing? Is it like the recessive gene makes the lacing and the dominant creates the filling or how in the world does that work? Is lacing a dominant trait? Would this be called blue laced red or something? View attachment 2443091


Also @black_cat sorry if I'm stealing your thread

No, stealing is great!!!

 

[Amer]

Does B mean "barred" and because it's male it has two copies? Where as females only have one B and the - is kind of like a placeholder?

Yes! I like it when people understand.

Makes more sense than it did a few seconds ago. So if you were doing the sexlinking with bars, and the females were to not have barring, what would the genotype (sorry if that's not the right word) be? And is the - the trait that only the females would have (can it go the other way too?)? So could the - be the lack of barring? Sorry, I am probably completely wrong and making no sense. I'm new to the world of chicken genetics.

The lack of barring is b+ so a duckwing female is e+e+b+/- the thing is, if a chicken didn’t express barring, you probably wouldn’t show it in the genotype unless comparing it with one who did.

what does the uppercase E mean? Is it cause wheaten is dominant or something? So it's a dominant wheaten gene?

Yep! It is dominant over duckwing I believe, though it seems more incompletely dominant to me. There is also a recessive wheaten gene: e^y. They both have similar properties, and annoyingly, you can’t tell by looking at a bird if it is dominant or recessive wheaten. (Apparently recessive wheaten causes a little more black stippling.)

It makes more sense than before. Will the female always have the sexlinked gene, or is that just true of crele? Does the /- indicate female as well as sex linked or just sex linked?

Both males and females can have sexlinked genes, but only females receive one copy, so only females have /- (And always from their father.) Mammals are the opposite. /- indicates a male with a sex linked gene.
Not all simplified genotypes have /-. For example, duckwing is usually just
e+e+
But the full genotype is
e+e+ co+co+ Cha+Cha+ mh+mh+ di+di+ Ig+Ig+ cb+cb+ i+i+ bl+bl+ Lav+Lav+ C+C+ Mo+Mo+db+db+ ml+ml+ pg+pg+ b+- s+- Choc+-
So you can still see the - signs, and that this is a female.
But that’s just a lot of redundant genes that you know are there but aren’t being expressed and are a waste of time to type.