Do you think dogs feel pride or sense of accomplishment in a task?

[patandchickens]

I do.

I mean, over the years I've seen dogs seeming pretty pleased with themselves when they do something right, and all that, but I've had a really interesting experience with Russell that pretty much convinces me.

Russell has always been a bit to the submissive-worried side of average, and as part of that, he has always (probably 3/4 of the time) kept his ears swept back and sort of "pleated" down the center. Rather than up and flat the way Lab ears normally are. No matter how I massaged him or unfolded his ears, unless he was actively perking them at me they would usually be carried back and folded.

Then maybe 6 weeks ago or so he got solid enough in obedience class that we did the whole thing off-leash (as opposed to just a few minutes here or a few minutes there -- it was a big leap). It was a lot of mental work for him, but you could almost see him, by the end, thinking "wow, hey, I am a dog who can do his job!"

That night when we got home from the class, and EVER SINCE, he has virtually-always carried his ears in normal Lab fashion, forward and flat.

Realio trulio. Total sudden change, as of that moment.

And now, when he has successfully mastered some difficult challenge in class, like not being distracted by food chucked at his feet, or running back and forth with me past *other* dogs that are *also* running back and forth off-leash (now we are in a beginning agility class) without losing focus, afterwards he looks up at me and I would swear he is feeling clever about himself. "Wow, didja see what I did, mom, Aren't I clever?" Same thing when we do little jump sequences in the backyard at home and he picks the right one of a difficult (for him) choice. He's always seemed to enjoy learning new things (the part where he does it right and gets reinforced, even if just with praise, for his success) but this is apparently a whole new level of it for him.

What if any experiences have you had like this, where the dog seems really proud of himself for a job he's done?

Pat

 

[carolinagirl58]

Oh, I am sure a dog feels a sense of accomplishment when they suceed! And I believe that a dog's confidance levels can certainly be raised. A few months ago I rescued a young female rottie off the side of the road. She was so shy and sad, and so insecure. After a month or so you could see a huge change in her. The big change came one day when I took her to a park and walked her all day. I don't know why that day was so much of a turning point for her, but after that day she was more eager, happy and relaxed. By the time she left here for her forever home, she was a different animal. She was full of confidance and joy. It was so wonderful to see this dog transform! I only wish I could have kept her but I have a female pit bull who is female dog agressive so it would never work.

 

[Mak]

Oh, absolutely! Murphy has been having some rear leg problems, mostly arthritis, but there are some nerve issues there as well as loss of muscle tone. I didn't want to put him into something like agility right away as I don't want him to plunge into something so hard he ends up getting hurt. The place I take him to for basic obedience has a new class called K9 ProFit. It's kind of like circuit training for dogs. And is designed to help with exactly the types of troubles Murphy has, and it can be geared down for older dogs like him.

So- we have gone to 2 classes so far, and Murphy seems to really love it. And this is a dog who has never, in the 7 years we have had him, been very toy or play oriented. He's a Lab, and I have never even been able to get him to retrieve. And he's always seemed- I don't know- not happy? Like he wants something more than just a good walk or run around the yard. This class has given him a lot of that. He just perks up and seems so happy when we are there. He was doing some weight pulling this week and the instructor kept saying he didn't want to push him too muich because of his age and all, but Murphy was alert, bouncy, all like "Oh, boy! Can I do more, please? Please?" He loves the balance board- just stands there, balancing it quite well, looking up a me like "Mom! Look at me! See what I can do!" We have some stuff to do here at home and he just gets so happy about it all. I think he's just so much more engaged and involved now. It may sound weird, but even his naps seem more contented now. Before, it was almost like he curled up and went to sleep because there was nothing else to do. Now, it's more like Wow! That was a work out! I think I need a nap!

So, yes, dogs can and do feel a real sense of accomplishment.

 

[patandchickens]

Quote:
Ha, Russell has never wanted to retrieve either (he will chase thrown objects but not bring them back).... until about a week ago when I started doing the beginning of 2x2 (Susan Garrett style) weave pole training, for which you need a thrown toy as reward. The first few times he ran off with it and I had to follow after him and 'trade' to get it back... but then apparently a lightbulb apparently went off in his head. He realized that, if he brought it right back to me right away, he could go thru the poles again immediately and have me toss it for him again immediately. So now he has the beginnings of a reasonable retrieve, self-taught LOL

This class has given him a lot of that. He just perks up and seems so happy when we are there. He was doing some weight pulling this week and the instructor kept saying he didn't want to push him too muich because of his age and all, but Murphy was alert, bouncy, all like "Oh, boy! Can I do more, please? Please?" He loves the balance board- just stands there, balancing it quite well, looking up a me like "Mom! Look at me! See what I can do!" We have some stuff to do here at home and he just gets so happy about it all.

That sounds like a really excellent class! YOu are lucky to have it available (both of you

)

Pat​

 

[welsummerchicks]

I don't suppose someone who disagrees is welcome on this thread?

I don't agree that a dog feels a 'sense of accomplishment' like a human being does.

I think they enjoy praise. And I think that getting praised after work and knowing and understanding the work does make the ears come forward. The dog becomes less uncertain and confused.

I've had many, many wonderful successes with my dogs and find all of them extremely easy, really effortless, honestly, to train. They work very well and have always gotten excellent scores in obedience, as well as just being very reliable around the farm and around other people. And I am very sure they have all been very, very happy in their work. I feel consistent, logical progression in training as well as 'tuning' the training to how sensitive or insensitive the dog is, makes it a good experience for the dog. I also feel that taking one's time is very, very important. Sometimes when a dog doesn't understand something, a little time makes all the difference.

So I'm not saying what I'm saying because I'm insensitive, or stupid, or inexperienced with dogs or have not experienced some of the most heady and thrilling moments of my life, working a dog and seeing it work well. I've experienced that many times with all my dogs. Plus that incredible feeling that one gets when IT REALLY COUNTS and the dog comes through for me. When that baby grabs the dog's mouth and it doesn't bite, and instead wags its tail, when something terrible happens and the dog is right there. Like when we're just home together and I feel a wet nose nudge my hand and see a pair of liquid brown eyes gazing up at me with a tail wagging - when I am so sick I can't get out of bed and the dog stays on my bed, all day, just because I need someone there.

I'm saying it because I don't feel a dog conceptualizes about the work in that way. 'A sense of accomplishment' suggests a higher kind of thinking that I do not believe a dog has. I don't think that a dog has that type of brain, or CAN think in that way.

We've talked about this subject many, many times after training class when we've been out at dinner. And I've heard just about every opinion along the spectrum from 'yes dogs experience a sense of achievement', to 'beat 'em to get 'em to do what you want or they won't do it, blah blah blah'. Me, I'm with neither camp, and get yelled at by both, LOL.

But since the dog is not able to conceptualize a purpose or a satisfaction in his work - I feel that this puts an incredible amount of responsibility on me. I have to be absolutely sure that the training is ethical and purposeful, and does not misuse the dog's good natured cooperation - that sessions are brief and clear and unconfusing, and more than anything, that what I am asking him is appropriate, kind and reasonable. In other words, when to say, 'That'll do', I have to be aware of that.

 

[EweSheep]

I don't know if they can feel pride or accomplishment but they certainly do enjoy praises and teamwork to get things done. When one member of the pack is down, loyality follows.

 

[dutchhollow]

I compete now at high leve hunt tests/trials, have also titled dogs in obedience and agility. I think you are happy and proud, that the dog and yourself have done well, the dog reads your body language and is happy/confident that is has made you happy. Honestly are they proud? I have had them act just as happy after going down in flames (as I try not to act upset when it happens), so IMO no, they just know you are happy.
Now some dogs are just happier more confident with a job to do (most working, hunting breeds) the more you do with them the happier they are.

 

[patandchickens]

Quote:
Sure they are

'A sense of accomplishment' suggests a higher kind of thinking that I do not believe a dog has. I don't think that a dog has that type of brain, or CAN think in that way.

Well, that's a perfectly legitimate difference of opinion, I have no problem with it (as long as I am allowed to disagree

)

I think they enjoy praise. And I think that getting praised after work and knowing and understanding the work does make the ears come forward. The dog becomes less uncertain and confused.

So how would you explain that forty five minutes of class off the leash, during which he did not get any more praise than for plenty of other things in his life, would be the one thing that "flipped the switch" and permanently so? Seems to me if it were just praise, well, this dog is not exactly suffering from a deficiency of praise in his life LOL and there are certainly things he's gotten BIGGER praise for e.g. when he originally learned to potty on cue or turning back when recalled from chasing a bird or one of the cats.

Pat​

 

[Akane]

It doesn't matter what you want to call it or the semantics of whether a dog is feeling the same emotion as we word it for humans. A dog doing work is definitely more content, confident, and usually calmer than a dog that isn't doing work. I don't think this is completely attached to praise. A dog left to do something on it's own without praise is also more content and confident that it did a task. I also have dog breeds who are known to not care about praise. They do things for themselves not their human and they are still in a better mood after accomplishing a task. My shiba does agility class obstacles just to do them and won't take a treat from me or play after an obstacle. She just looks for another obstacle and you can see her become much more alert and confident with every obstacle she finishes correctly. She'll go from tense body language, pulling on the leash, and leaning towards every person and dog to happily flopping on her belly and panting when we have a break even if she still has plenty of energy.

 

[patandchickens]

Quote:
I like that way of putting it. "more content and confident [...] in a better mood after accomplishing a task". Wc how do you feel about that phrasing then?

Pat