Docile Cockerel Concern

[coach723]

No one should feel guilty about possible Marek's disease, it can truly happen to anyone. Most have birds that have not been vaccinated. Many flocks are a mix of purchased birds that may be vaccinated, and home hatches that are mostly not. Marek's can come from wild birds, or from new birds brought in. Some strains are very mild and flock losses will not be huge, other strains are much more virulent and losses can be much higher. There are many people who have Marek's in their flocks and it's just dealt with. Many are raising birds and breeding for resistance rather than vaccinating. There is some debate about the vaccine since it doesn't actually prevent the disease, it just prevents them developing the tumors. In the last 6 months I have two birds that may have developed occular Marek's. I'm just watching them for now. I've never had a case in 10 years, and these will be my first, if that's what it is. I have never brought in new birds except 1-3 day old chicks. It happens. Marek's is much more common than many people realize. Hopefully that is not what this is with yours. I would do some vitamin supplementing, the B's in particular, and some E, since vitamin deficiencies can cause some odd neuro-muscular symptoms sometimes. And there are other conditions/diseases that can have similar symptoms to Marek's. I have a 6 year old rooster with an odd head twitch, definitly neurological, no known cause. He's had it since he was about 6 months old. I hope yours does OK, but if you do lose him, then a necropsy is your best resource for knowing for sure what caused it.

 

[azygous]

Someone alerted my Batman signal. I looked over this thread and the original one. In my view this cockerel has a treatable condition, although we can't say for certain, having only photos to go by, whether he has feather cysts or scaly leg mites. (Marek's is conjecture at this point)

My "style" is to treat for both. It can't hurt, and at least one of the treatments is bound to do some good. Maybe he has defied the odds and is unlucky enough to suffer from both maladies. All the more reason to treat for both.

Feathered feet have a tendency to in grown pin feathers. Usually, this involves noticing an inflamed spot and inspecting it close enough to see that a feather shaft has made an unfortunate "U" turn and it's grown in on itself. After a while, this inflamed tissue can begin to harbor bacteria. If left untreated, the bacteria grows and spreads. Read this. https://vcahospitals.com/know-your-pet/feather-cysts-in-birds

An oral antibiotic would be something I would absolutely try. Amoxicillin under the name fish mox is a very good all spectrum antibiotic and easily available online. (250mg for ten days) I would accompany that with daily soaks in Betadine and Espsom salts.

Second, I would treat for leg mites. It does no harm if he doesn't have them, and it could help tremendously if he does. I use Elector PSP for leg mites. I make a soak with it and one soak does the trick and I'm done. If you can't manage the expense, Elector has a hefty price tag, you can use Sevin liquid concentrate and mix up a soaking solution. Ten minutes in the soak should kill most of the mites. I would follow up with another Sevin soak a week or ten days later to be sure.

It's time to DO something. This poor guy is in a lot of pain. Both conditions cause pain. It's unnecessary. Both are treatable.

 

[EggPlant Mama]

Someone alerted my Batman signal. I looked over this thread and the original one. In my view this cockerel has a treatable condition, although we can't say for certain, having only photos to go by, whether he has feather cysts or scaly leg mites. (Marek's is conjecture at this point)

My "style" is to treat for both. It can't hurt, and at least one of the treatments is bound to do some good. Maybe he has defied the odds and is unlucky enough to suffer from both maladies. All the more reason to treat for both.

Feathered feet have a tendency to in grown pin feathers. Usually, this involves noticing an inflamed spot and inspecting it close enough to see that a feather shaft has made an unfortunate "U" turn and it's grown in on itself. After a while, this inflamed tissue can begin to harbor bacteria. If left untreated, the bacteria grows and spreads. Read this. https://vcahospitals.com/know-your-pet/feather-cysts-in-birds

An oral antibiotic would be something I would absolutely try. Amoxicillin under the name fish mox is a very good all spectrum antibiotic and easily available online. (250mg for ten days) I would accompany that with daily soaks in Betadine and Espsom salts.

Second, I would treat for leg mites. It does no harm if he doesn't have them, and it could help tremendously if he does. I use Elector PSP for leg mites. I make a soak with it and one soak does the trick and I'm done. If you can't manage the expense, Elector has a hefty price tag, you can use Sevin liquid concentrate and mix up a soaking solution. Ten minutes in the soak should kill most of the mites. I would follow up with another Sevin soak a week or ten days later to be sure.

It's time to DO something. This poor guy is in a lot of pain. Both conditions cause pain. It's unnecessary. Both are treatable.

May I suggest a much GENTLER,
less assuming approach when someone is looking for advice about a sick chicken.
The "It's time to DO something." statement says to me, it's been assumed I've done nothing to help my cockerel ?
It's really hard to know how to respond to that statement.
Maybe if you have a better understanding of what I have done thus far, maybe it would be less likely to assume I've done NOTHING for 10 days.
So here's my list (Although, I may have miss something)
I have soaked my cockerel's (Luna Roo) feet/legs 1-2 times per day in warm Epsom salt, followed by a 45 minute cooled blow drying- each soak.
I saturated Luna Roo's feet/legs with coconut oil.
I saturated all three chickens feet/legs with a mixture of olive oil and Cheyenne pepper for at least 3 days and using Neosporin on Luna Roo at night, every night.
I removed and burned ALL bedding materials from the coop and nesting boxes.
I completely disinfected the entire inside of the coop, nesting boxes and perches, then sprayed down with liquid seven AND neem oil drying in between applications, finalizing the coop clean with an excessive dusting of D.E.
I then removed and burned approximately 12 inches of flooring material from the coop run and the large run.
I removed all perches, toys, play structures, waterer and feeder from the large run, disinfected and then sprayed down with liquid seven AND neem oil drying in between applications, finalizing the clean with an excessive dusting of D.E.
I completely dusted the run floor with D.E. before returning everything to its place.
All three chickens were bathed in Adams flea and tick shampoo sprayed down with Vetericyn plus and then a cooled blow drying for each chicken. Each hen took an hour and a half each and the cockerel took two hours for the cooled blow drying.
I had 3 tons of construction sand delivered, then I shoveled, spread, and raked it all, in and around the chicken runs. I also dusted all the areas with D.E.
Meanwhile, 9 or 10 days into this, I still have a cockerel in my dining room, which likes to start crowing at 5am and continues intermittently until about 830am - EVERYDAY.
As for the Elector PSP, I didn't choose that method, because I only know about it from a video I watched from the chicken chick, who promotes the product - No one previously mentioned it. I did look the product up, and the almost $200 price tag didn't deter me, it was because I reached out to the chicken chick via email and Facebook with no response.
I pretty much tried EVERYTHING I read or someone suggested that would help my cockerel.
Soooooo, if your batman signal gets alerted for one of my threads again, PLEASE, ask me questions before assuming I have done nothing. It is stressful enough doing everything I can to help my chicken - not defending the care I give them.
I hope you have a nice day.

 

[EggPlant Mama]

No one should feel guilty about possible Marek's disease, it can truly happen to anyone. Most have birds that have not been vaccinated. Many flocks are a mix of purchased birds that may be vaccinated, and home hatches that are mostly not. Marek's can come from wild birds, or from new birds brought in. Some strains are very mild and flock losses will not be huge, other strains are much more virulent and losses can be much higher. There are many people who have Marek's in their flocks and it's just dealt with. Many are raising birds and breeding for resistance rather than vaccinating. There is some debate about the vaccine since it doesn't actually prevent the disease, it just prevents them developing the tumors. In the last 6 months I have two birds that may have developed occular Marek's. I'm just watching them for now. I've never had a case in 10 years, and these will be my first, if that's what it is. I have never brought in new birds except 1-3 day old chicks. It happens. Marek's is much more common than many people realize. Hopefully that is not what this is with yours. I would do some vitamin supplementing, the B's in particular, and some E, since vitamin deficiencies can cause some odd neuro-muscular symptoms sometimes. And there are other conditions/diseases that can have similar symptoms to Marek's. I have a 6 year old rooster with an odd head twitch, definitly neurological, no known cause. He's had it since he was about 6 months old. I hope yours does OK, but if you do lose him, then a necropsy is your best resource for knowing for sure what caused it.

Thank you for your kind and encouraging words.
The vitamin supplements you mention, do they make these supplements specific to chickens?

 

[azygous]

I apologize for the offending "tone". I meant nothing more by it than an excitement to get going on improving life for this cockerel. Please don't let this interfere with our efforts to help you help your chicken.

 

[Wyorp Rock]

Someone alerted my Batman signal. I looked over this thread and the original one. In my view this cockerel has a treatable condition, although we can't say for certain, having only photos to go by, whether he has feather cysts or scaly leg mites. (Marek's is conjecture at this point)

My "style" is to treat for both. It can't hurt, and at least one of the treatments is bound to do some good. Maybe he has defied the odds and is unlucky enough to suffer from both maladies. All the more reason to treat for both.

Feathered feet have a tendency to in grown pin feathers. Usually, this involves noticing an inflamed spot and inspecting it close enough to see that a feather shaft has made an unfortunate "U" turn and it's grown in on itself. After a while, this inflamed tissue can begin to harbor bacteria. If left untreated, the bacteria grows and spreads. Read this. https://vcahospitals.com/know-your-pet/feather-cysts-in-birds

An oral antibiotic would be something I would absolutely try. Amoxicillin under the name fish mox is a very good all spectrum antibiotic and easily available online. (250mg for ten days) I would accompany that with daily soaks in Betadine and Espsom salts.

Second, I would treat for leg mites. It does no harm if he doesn't have them, and it could help tremendously if he does. I use Elector PSP for leg mites. I make a soak with it and one soak does the trick and I'm done. If you can't manage the expense, Elector has a hefty price tag, you can use Sevin liquid concentrate and mix up a soaking solution. Ten minutes in the soak should kill most of the mites. I would follow up with another Sevin soak a week or ten days later to be sure.

It's time to DO something. This poor guy is in a lot of pain. Both conditions cause pain. It's unnecessary. Both are treatable.

 

[Eggcessive]

May I suggest a much GENTLER,
less assuming approach when someone is looking for advice about a sick chicken.
The "It's time to DO something." statement says to me, it's been assumed I've done nothing to help my cockerel ?
It's really hard to know how to respond to that statement.
Maybe if you have a better understanding of what I have done thus far, maybe it would be less likely to assume I've done NOTHING for 10 days.
So here's my list (Although, I may have miss something)
I have soaked my cockerel's (Luna Roo) feet/legs 1-2 times per day in warm Epsom salt, followed by a 45 minute cooled blow drying- each soak.
I saturated Luna Roo's feet/legs with coconut oil.
I saturated all three chickens feet/legs with a mixture of olive oil and Cheyenne pepper for at least 3 days and using Neosporin on Luna Roo at night, every night.
I removed and burned ALL bedding materials from the coop and nesting boxes.
I completely disinfected the entire inside of the coop, nesting boxes and perches, then sprayed down with liquid seven AND neem oil drying in between applications, finalizing the coop clean with an excessive dusting of D.E.
I then removed and burned approximately 12 inches of flooring material from the coop run and the large run.
I removed all perches, toys, play structures, waterer and feeder from the large run, disinfected and then sprayed down with liquid seven AND neem oil drying in between applications, finalizing the clean with an excessive dusting of D.E.
I completely dusted the run floor with D.E. before returning everything to its place.
All three chickens were bathed in Adams flea and tick shampoo sprayed down with Vetericyn plus and then a cooled blow drying for each chicken. Each hen took an hour and a half each and the cockerel took two hours for the cooled blow drying.
I had 3 tons of construction sand delivered, then I shoveled, spread, and raked it all, in and around the chicken runs. I also dusted all the areas with D.E.
Meanwhile, 9 or 10 days into this, I still have a cockerel in my dining room, which likes to start crowing at 5am and continues intermittently until about 830am - EVERYDAY.
As for the Elector PSP, I didn't choose that method, because I only know about it from a video I watched from the chicken chick, who promotes the product - No one previously mentioned it. I did look the product up, and the almost $200 price tag didn't deter me, it was because I reached out to the chicken chick via email and Facebook with no response.
I pretty much tried EVERYTHING I read or someone suggested that would help my cockerel.
Soooooo, if your batman signal gets alerted for one of my threads again, PLEASE, ask me questions before assuming I have done nothing. It is stressful enough doing everything I can to help my chicken - not defending the care I give them.
I hope you have a nice day.

@azygous was tagged by an earlier poster to offer help here, so that was the reason for the “bat signal” reference. She has decades of experience, and earnestly tries to help people. I have seen many, many of her posts offering helpful advice on this forum every day. Sorry if certain words seemed harsh, but no need to be harsh back. Elector PSP is expensive and probably better than most treatments. Most of us would chose permethrin 10 spray first, but in the long run for years of use, Elector may be worthwhile. We are all interested in helping others here and we all are mostly nice people. Carol (azygous) is one of the nicest. Sometimes words on a forum come off a little different than we mean sometimes. I have posted things that may have been too strong or misinterpreted. When you read threads here for a long time you get to know what most people are like.

 

[coach723]

Poultry cell is a good multi vitamin supplement. When I'm treating a suspected deficiency I use human ones so I can target the specific needs. I use human B complex tablets (regular, not time release) and E capsules. Some E comes with selenium already added, if it doesn't you can give some cooked or scrambled egg, canned tuna or sunflower seeds for a bit of selenium (helps with the uptake of the E). You can grind up the tablet and mix with some moistened crumbles, you can poke the capsule and do the same, or drip it in his mouth so he swallows it. 400 iu daily of the E for a couple of weeks, B's are water soluble so no real risk of overdosing those, E is fat soluble so you have to be a little more careful with that one long term.
I don't think @azygous meant to offend. Sometimes when we write something it reads different than we intended. It is also hard to put a lot of information in a post sometimes, concisely but completely. The vast majority of the people here only intend to help, not to judge, and we all understand the stress of taking care of an ill bird.

 

[EggPlant Mama]

I apologize for the offending "tone". I meant nothing more by it than an excitement to get going on improving life for this cockerel. Please don't let this interfere with our efforts to help you help your chicken.

Thank you, all I want is for him to feel better. I'm just unsure what the next step is, my husband found a vet about 30 minutes from us, that specializes in livestock, so I think first thing Monday we're going to give them a call. Until then, my plan is to continue the Epsom salt soaks and Neosporin. Someone mentioned vitamin supplements, so I'm going to look at that as well.

 

[EggPlant Mama]

Poultry cell is a good multi vitamin supplement. When I'm treating a suspected deficiency I use human ones so I can target the specific needs. I use human B complex tablets (regular, not time release) and E capsules. Some E comes with selenium already added, if it doesn't you can give some cooked or scrambled egg, canned tuna or sunflower seeds for a bit of selenium (helps with the uptake of the E). You can grind up the tablet and mix with some moistened crumbles, you can poke the capsule and do the same, or drip it in his mouth so he swallows it. 400 iu daily of the E for a couple of weeks, B's are water soluble so no real risk of overdosing those, E is fat soluble so you have to be a little more careful with that one long term.
I don't think @azygous meant to offend. Sometimes when we write something it reads different than we intended. It is also hard to put a lot of information in a post sometimes, concisely but completely. The vast majority of the people here only intend to help, not to judge, and we all understand the stress of taking care of an ill bird.

Thank you for the information, I will definitely give this a try.
And I do believe people here are very helpful and I am a believer that things sometimes gets lost in the translation of the words written vs. the words read and interpreted.
And yes, I was offended and felt the need to defend my care. But I also respect and accept her response as sincere.