Docking Tails (dogs- want your oppinon).

[ninjapoodles]

Quote:
Yes, your girl's tail is definitely docked, and about twice as short as a show breeder would've done it. She looks really cute, BTW--I'd love to see her face!

I don't want to give a lot of detail on a forum like this, for fear that someone might try it on their own without being shown the proper procedure, but feel free to email me for more info, ninjapoodlesATgmailDOTcom. Basically, we pinch off the blood supply to the tail-tip, wait a few seconds, then twist the tip off. It is really NOT a big deal. Dewclaws are more traumatic, IMO, and brandywine has me considering leaving those next time, depending on how/where they're attached.

 

[rebecca10782]

Quote:

I use my golden's tail as a leash too!

 

[ninjapoodles]

patandchickens--I meant to ask you, have you ever read about the tail-less boxer project? Basically, a breeder crossed boxers with corgis, and selected for natural bob-tails. Then in consequent generations, selected for correct boxer type. They had produced a naturally bob-tailed boxer, who LOOKED like a boxer, in very short order. It's a fascinating story .

And here's an update from the following year.

 

[rebecca10782]

Quote:
Yes, your girl's tail is definitely docked, and about twice as short as a show breeder would've done it. She looks really cute, BTW--I'd love to see her face!

I don't want to give a lot of detail on a forum like this, for fear that someone might try it on their own without being shown the proper procedure, but feel free to email me for more info, ninjapoodlesATgmailDOTcom. Basically, we pinch off the blood supply to the tail-tip, wait a few seconds, then twist the tip off. It is really NOT a big deal. Dewclaws are more traumatic, IMO, and brandywine has me considering leaving those next time, depending on how/where they're attached.

Well, I will take back the barberic comment about you and people that do it the way you do, but I still think it is unessesary cruelty. Even if it is just a few seconds of pain. Just the idea of making a dog "beautiful" and then rejecting dogs that don't look "beautiful" as they sit in shelters, upsets me. I am NOT saying that YOU are responsible for homeless dogs. But the whole idea that our animals have to look a certain way to matter or be useful is just upsetting. The same goes with people. We should not live in a society that judges so harshly the way people look. I am not saying I don't, everyone does, because we are all progamed to think that way. My generation (I am 25) basically makes girls think that if we are not perfect, we are absolutely usless in every way. When I was in high school, I couldn't go to school most of the time because of anxiety and panic attacks. I now realize how rediculous it was.
But what are 14 year olds supposed to think, if they don't have people telling them that what society thinks does not matter? OK I know I am getting off subject. Anyway, I just wanted to put that out there. To sum up, we should accept and appreciate God's creation just the way it is. If dogs didn't need tails, He wouldn't of given them tails

Next subject:

The poodle is Gnoochi. I adopted her, a family had her living in the backyard with her brother and a pitbull. She was unfixed, starved, and clearly abused (she barks viciously at anyone she doesn't know, espes men and she gets timid when we are in public) so I am asuming she came from a puppy mill. The kids probably saw these 1/2 pound puppies and played with them until they were no longer amusing and stuck them in the back yard. God, everytime I think of my poor baby in a puppy mill I get sick to my stomach. But you did make a mistake by asking for
pictures

Here ya go

^
|
|
She stole that

And here is a picture of Bailey cause he is just to handsome

 

[ninjapoodles]

That 4th photo from the bottom is PRICELESS. I would frame that one, seriously.

And yeah, I absolutely agree about cosmetic alterations. They're silly and frivolous. I don't consider anything we're doing in this household to be "cruel," however, or obviously I wouldn't do it.

We do have to have breed standards when dealing with purebred animals, though, be they chickens or dogs or whatever. It's what makes each breed unique--what makes a silkie different from a RIR, or a Golden different from a bulldog. So of course I don't have a problem with enforcing some sort of phenotypical guidelines on our purebreds, but I do NOT think that means that those specimens who don't measure up are in any way less valued as companions, partners, pets. It's only in the venues of showing and breeding when strict adherence to breed standards must be observed. I would posit, however, that these types of breedings are the ones that are least likely to produce animals who are gross misrepresentations of their breed.

But you're right on in that cosmetic alterations should have no bearing on a dog's acceptance into...well, anything. Nor should any other facet of its appearance interfere with its acceptance as a pet and companion.

As far as extrapolating that into the human realm, well, that's a whole lot more complicated (and I agree with you on those points).

 

[Anny]

Personally I don't think I dogs tail should be docked period. In most cases it's purely cosmetic and has litter to no health benefit to the animal.

I can under stand docking a herding dogs tail do that the tail will not be stepped on by cattle. Or docking a dogs tail that may be prone to getting "happy tail" (they smack their tail into think causing the end of the tail to split and bleed)

But over all tail docking is a cosmetic surgery done for the humane own personal taste and not for the animal.

Good for you for not docking.

 

[Buster]

Quote:
Ditto. I wish people would think of an animals well being instead of their need for a "stylish" dog. I am sure I'm going to receive lots of not so nice responses for my next comment but I feel very strongly about this kind of thing. If someone can actually pick up a knife and chop off a new born's tail with out anesthesia, hear that cry and not feel any remorse, they are seriously disturbed and should get help.

So are you saying that castrating dogs, cats, pigs, cattle, horses, goats, sheep, etc., is inhumane? After all it is altering the animal and usually by cutting. All these animals squeal, bleat, cry out, etc., when they undergo this. How about tagging the ears on cattle and other livestock? Or even branding, which is in most areas the only legal proof that you have of owning a particular cow? All of these procedures cause the animal to cry out and the people involved in doing them are definitely NOT disturbed and do NOT need help. It is just a matter of course and a means to an end.

 

[ninjapoodles]

Quote:
Ditto. I wish people would think of an animals well being instead of their need for a "stylish" dog. I am sure I'm going to receive lots of not so nice responses for my next comment but I feel very strongly about this kind of thing. If someone can actually pick up a knife and chop off a new born's tail with out anesthesia, hear that cry and not feel any remorse, they are seriously disturbed and should get help.

So are you saying that castrating dogs, cats, pigs, cattle, horses, goats, sheep, etc., is inhumane? After all it is altering the animal and usually by cutting. All these animals squeal, bleat, cry out, etc., when they undergo this. How about tagging the ears on cattle and other livestock? Or even branding, which is in most areas the only legal proof that you have of owning a particular cow? All of these procedures cause the animal to cry out and the people involved in doing them are definitely NOT disturbed and do NOT need help. It is just a matter of course and a means to an end.

Good point, but I should point out that I've owned horses for 20 years, and they DO put them under to castrate (geld) them. I'm guessing that's not so feasible when you have an entire herd of calves, etc. to work through. It's also more important to do the job correctly and thoroughly with a horse, since that's an animal that will likely have a working partnership with humans for the rest of its life, as opposed to a bull calf who is becoming a steer for the express purpose of becoming food later in the year.

They used to "proud-cut" stallions, which basically to remove their ability to reproduce without removing their "attitude." And sometimes it happened accidentally when the vet didn't make the cut in just the right place during a normal gelding procedure. Never did see the point of doing THAT on purpose. There's a reason that we refer to gelding a colt as "brain surgery."

 

[Buster]

Quote:
So are you saying that castrating dogs, cats, pigs, cattle, horses, goats, sheep, etc., is inhumane? After all it is altering the animal and usually by cutting. All these animals squeal, bleat, cry out, etc., when they undergo this. How about tagging the ears on cattle and other livestock? Or even branding, which is in most areas the only legal proof that you have of owning a particular cow? All of these procedures cause the animal to cry out and the people involved in doing them are definitely NOT disturbed and do NOT need help. It is just a matter of course and a means to an end.

Good point, but I should point out that I've owned horses for 20 years, and they DO put them under to castrate (geld) them. I'm guessing that's not so feasible when you have an entire herd of calves, etc. to work through. It's also more important to do the job correctly and thoroughly with a horse, since that's an animal that will likely have a working partnership with humans for the rest of its life, as opposed to a bull calf who is becoming a steer for the express purpose of becoming food later in the year.

They used to "proud-cut" stallions, which basically to remove their ability to reproduce without removing their "attitude." And sometimes it happened accidentally when the vet didn't make the cut in just the right place during a normal gelding procedure. Never did see the point of doing THAT on purpose. There's a reason that we refer to gelding a colt as "brain surgery."

You are right about the horses. I actually don't know anyone who gelds them themselves and haven't been there when they've done it at the vet so I can take that part of the comment back. However, I've been present and performed the procedure on many other animals and I am just a normal guy, not a freak and not disturbed. I know that on some animals like cats and dogs, they are put under as well. However, it is still altering them, which to me is fine but to others, it appears, is not ok.

 

[ninjapoodles]

Here's an illuminating blog-post about castrating calves, with lots of pictures (nothing bloody or gory):

http://thepioneerwoman.com/2008/07/whippersnappers_calf_nuts_and_worry.html

And another, this time a little gross with one picture:

http://thepioneerwoman.com/2007/01/how_we_show_our.html

Glad I'm not a beef-farmer.

But glad some people ARE, because, well...yum, steak.

ETA: Although, the cattle from Pioneer Woman's ranch are on their way to CAFOs, and we DO try hard not to buy beef from those kinds of sources any more.