Dog food questions

[Rosalind]

Here's how I look at it: Science Diet et al. are hospital food. Is hospital food better for you than McGarbage? Absolutely. It contains some roughage (in the form of a tiny iceberg lettuce salad), some vitamins (grated carrots on the salad, tomato in the main course), some minerals (probably a bit of processed cheezfood product in there for calcium, some Grade D ground beef for iron). It has an appropriate number of calories per serving, and the serving sizes are correct. You get a juice box to drink--which is mostly HFCS and fruit flavoring--and Jello dessert, which is mostly saccharine or Equal.

Is it equivalent to a gourmet baby field greens salad (4 c. of greens including dandelion, mustard, kale and spinach) with artisanal bleu cheese, roasted rosemary-garlic free range pastured chicken, fresh-baked multigrain-and-pumpkinseed rolls, with Greek yogurt and just-picked Alpine strawberries for dessert, a glass of Napa Valley Pinot Noir and a big jug of mint-infused water to drink? Not so much.

Yes, the overwhelming majority of people eat McGarbage and hospital food is technically better for them. It's still not the very best, and it's still, frankly, pretty gross. I've had lots of pets go hungry rather than eat Science Diet, even though they are clearly hungry and will eat good food, cooked chicken, cooked beef, human-grade tuna. But you put down Hills, Iams, etc. and they turn their little whiskers up at it. Hospital food.

 

[Wifezilla]

Yes, wolves and such eat raw in the wild but there are grains in the dog food b/c wolves eat animals that eat grains and such and therefore it is in their diet indirectly.

"Myth: WOLVES INGEST THE STOMACH CONTENTS OF THEIR PREY.

This claim is repeated over and over as evidence that wolves and therefore dogs are omnivores. However, this assumption is just that--an assumption. It is not supported by the evidence available to us, and is therefore false!

Wolves do NOT eat the stomach contents of their prey. Only if the prey is small enough (like the size of a rabbit) will they eat the stomach contents, which just happen to get consumed along with the entire animal. Otherwise, wolves will shake out the stomach contents of their large herbivorous prey before sometimes eating the stomach wall. The following quotations are taken from L. David Mech's 2003 book Wolves: Behavior, Ecology, and Conservation. Mech (and the others who contributed to this book) is considered the world's leading wolf biologist, and this book is a compilation of 350 collective years of research, experiments, and careful field observations. These quotes are taken from chapter 4, The Wolf as a Carnivore.
"Wolves usually tear into the body cavity of large prey and...consume the larger internal organs, such as lungs, heart, and liver. The large rumen [, which is one of the main stomach chambers in large ruminant herbivores,]...is usually punctured during removal and its contents spilled. The vegetation in the intestinal tract is of no interest to the wolves, but the stomach lining and intestinal wall are consumed, and their contents further strewn about the kill site." (pg.123, emphasis added)

"To grow and maintain their own bodies, wolves need to ingest all the major parts of their herbivorous prey, except the plants in the digestive system." (pg.124, emphasis added)."
http://www.rawfed.com/myths/stomachcontents.html​

 

[jywel417]

Informative post Wifezilla !! I don't ever see myself feeding raw when I can get foods like Wellness, and if I did go to home cooked I am afraid COOKED would be the key word for me

Probably mainly because of the processing the raw food goes thru before getting to the store, etc etc and truthfully, raw food just grosses me out LOL I can cook with it, etc but the ideas of eating it or feeding it to my kids is a bit more than I can do right now, once again that is just me.


Do you have any books you suggest for reading up on raw diets? That way maybe I am more well informed if we have a client come in who is interested? That way I can also point them in a good direction for starting off?

I remember one lady who had show dogs and she fed them raw chicken necks . . . . no other supplementations . . . . and cheap cheap cheap stuff, got them as butchershop cast off trash stuff. . . All I can think is that was most certainly NOT balanced . . . . Maybe i'm wrong. anyways wifezilla, any reading suggestions for me? Thanks ahead of time

 

[KotaDVM]

That website has so much wrong information it makes my head hurt. Shall I point out all of the non-scientific crap here too?


Wolves do not eat the ruminal contents of large prey... they are not interested in eating 60 lbs of fermenting grass. They do however eat the rumen, reticulum, omasum, and abomasum of their prey that does contain fermented material. Wolves HAVE to have soluble carbohydrates in their diet or else they are nutritionally deficient. Cats on the other hand receive very little carbohydrates via plant material...they derive glucose from amino acids and the process of gluconeogenesis by consuming animal tissue.

This website is picking and choosing information as if animal nutrition is a salad bar.

 

[Wifezilla]

Wolves HAVE to have soluble carbohydrates in their diet or else they are nutritionally deficient.

There are some carbohydrates in liver and other organ meat. The requirement for carbohydrates in the body are easily taken care of when the diet is adequate in protein as the liver makes any needed glucose. A small requirement for glucose doesn't mean eating corn, soy, rice, oatmeal, beat pulp, wheat and other cheap fillers (aka agricultural waste) as a majority of the animal's diet is a good idea. The rates of canine and feline diabetes and obesity are good indicator this isn't a great plan.

The argument that you HAVE to have carbohydrates is also used when it comes to people. It is simply not true and arctic explorer Vilhjalmur Stefansson proved that quite some time ago.

"Stefansson documented the fact that most Inuit lived on a diet of about 90% meat and fish, often going 6-9 months a year on nothing but meat and fish--essentially, a no-carbohydrate diet. He found that he and his fellow European-descent explorers were also perfectly healthy on such a diet. When medical authorities questioned him on this, he and a fellow explorer agreed to undertake a study under the auspices of the Journal of the American Medical Association to demonstrate that they could eat a 100% meat diet in a closely-observed laboratory setting for the first several weeks, with paid observers for the rest of an entire year. The results were published in the Journal of the AMA, and both men were perfectly healthy on such a diet, without vitamin supplementation or anything else in their diet except meat.[9]"

Wolves are not out there hunting stalks of wheat, piles of soy, or ears of corn. If there are some opportunistically available, sure, why not? The percentage of carbohydrates in the natural diet of a wild wolf is miniscule compared to the amount of fats and protein in the diet. Most commercial dog foods do not match the macronutrient profile of the natural diet these animals need. (Less than 20% carbohydrates for dogs? 10% maybe? I read it is closer to 6% for cats) Most commercial dog foods are mostly starches and sugars with some low quality protein, fat, and added vitamins.

There are essential fatty acids. Protein is essential for muscle and cell repair. There is no such thing as an "essential carbohydrate" that dogs (or people) MUST eat in order to be healthy. Like I said earlier, the few organs that have to run on glucose get it from protein converted to glucose in the liver as needed.

It's your pet. Feed it whatever you want. Just don't fall for the hype and marketing spin of pet food manufacturers and vets who profit from the sale of corn-based low quality food. Pet food was a 45 BILLION dollar industry as of 2007 (couldn't find a newer number). Look to nature and evolution as your guide to what to feed your pet then figure out what your wallet and lifestyle will allow you to do to get them as healthy as possible. Feeding them cheap "sugar" (or in the case of Hills and Science Diet, cheap "sugar" disguised as expensive "sugar") WILL cost you as your pet ages.​

 

[warcard]

Farrier,

How about some salmon oil on the food? Good for the coat and a calorie boost.

 

[farrier!]

Quote:
Any idea where to find some? I am really out in the boonies but can drive to Paducah Ky.
Thanks!

 

[warcard]

Shoot you had to ask where, I got mine at a pet store in the local outlet mall during a Christmas sale, can't remember the name of the place.

Pet stores normally have some kind of fish oil product in the health care area as a supplement.

Or look around online.

Also you can buy fish oil pills for humans at your local pharmacy, I think I also saw straight oil once (ugh). My guys (~17-lbs) can have one 1000mg pill a day. I am aiming for helping with dry skin and a nice coat, not extra calories. Actually I have to work to keep my girl slim for agility.

Go slowly when you start supplementing or it could be scary at the other end

 

[Robin'sBrood]

Here is a good article about pet foods.

http://www.thepetcenter.com/imtop/bestfood.html

 

[ninny]

We have always used Iams and we really like it. I feed the lamb and rice.

My female Bichon has wheat allergy's and it works great for her.

My dogs get feed twice a day.

The lab gets 6 cups a day, the border collie/lab gets 4 a day and the two Bichons each get 2 a day. Love this food.