Dog to be euthanized UPDATE: Euthanasia went BAD (pg 3)

[Lothiriel]

Heather, I am so sorry for your loss. I can't even begin to imagine what it must have been like for you -- I was not there when my cat had to be put down. But my heart goes out to you!! It is awful to lose a pet.

thebritt is right. Your dog is now with you always.

 

[JustPeachy]

Quote:
Why not may I ask? Because of a 900 lb weight difference? Is the pain worse for a larger animal? Or is because the horse can break your neck or total a car when it goes down? I hope that is not the ridiculous reason....a shot in the vein is the same in either case. Maybe had that darling doggie chewed on the vet's face a little we could compare them? Being too lazy, stupid or incompetent to do the right thing for the animal and the owner is never excuseable. The excuse/reasoning it that is lowers the blood pressure too much making it harder to find a good vein...well that is a cop out and a lame excuse. So what if it does? The animal is loopy, relaxed and no biggie to spend an extra five minutes or so finding a good vein if needed....which I have yet to see be the problem in any animal I have had to have put down, (horse, dog, cat or calf) so explain to me again the lameness of why that animal had to suffer hurt and fear or why Heather had to go through it, watch it and help hold her companion down for it...give me ONE good reason because thusfar all I have read is lazy stupid excuses.

This horror story is why a responsible, caring and smart vet uses sedation first. Frankly, from my seat I could give two craps less how difficult it may or may not be for a vet or tech to find a vein...that would not be my concern nor is it a consideration, that animal's welfare and comfort and that of the owner are paramount and the only consideration.

First off, I have NOT ONCE said that sedation was never warranted in a case, what I said was that it was wrong of you to call her veterinarian stupid and an idiot because he choose not to use sedation in this particular case, so don't turn my words around. My point is that saying every single animal that is going to be euthanized should recieve a sedative prior is wrong, you have to take each case and decide what is needed. I also don't think you understand what I mean by finding a vein, If she had to watch the veterinarian probing for a vein with a needle in her poor dogs leg until he could find the find because the blood pressure is so low you can't palpate one I think that would have been just as traumatc. This usually results in a blown vein, which is why the dog continued to breathe much longer after receiving the solution, which shouldn't have happened, low blood pressures can also cause this because it takes a long time for the solution to reach the vital organs... Blood pressure is more important than you give it credit for...I have seen lots of animals receive sedation and then it is nearly impossible to hit a vein, and they still squirm while the vet is attempting to give the injection with or without sedation. All I was saying is that from my 12yrs of experience in emergency & critical care medicine the best way to go about this procedure is to place an IV Catheter so if the pet does move you don't have to worry about trying to find another vein. I don't know how many animals you have personally put to sleep, or even pulled blood from or gave an injection to IV, but blood pressure has a lot to do with how easy it is to find, hit and maintain a blood vessel. The difference in euthanizing a horse and a dog is that a horse has a blood vessel the size of your thumb regardless of blood pressure so if you can't hit it you don't know what your doing. We always sedate horses before we euthanize them. Another thing is sedation doesn't necessarily make it any less "scary" for your pet, it just makes it easier to do the procedure because your pet can't really move or respond to the pain.... so some people could see it has less humane to sedate because then the vet could just poke and prod away without a care instead of taking their time to hit the vein well and the first time. I don't appreciate my original post being turned into more that what I said. I was only defending the veterinarian because if you were not there you can not make such blatant statements. As far as it being cheaper, at my clinic the charge for euthanasia is the same whether you have sedation or not, and all of our patients receive an IV catheter. I have worked at other clinics where IV catheters are not used and I have seen many more "bad" situations from that than from the patient not getting a sedative. Another post I saw was that by not giving a sedative the procedure is somehow more cruel?! The medication used to euthanize is only an overdose of anesthetic, its not painful for the pet. It can be scary for some animals, but so can being mildly sedated, sometimes sedation can be more terrifying to the pet because they can still move and see but have very little control of what is going on while the euthanasia solution is very quick in working and usually the pet is gone before they realize what is happening. To say that every vet should sedate first is wrong, some people don't want their animal sedated prior, and would be highly upset if the vet said it was required. I think a lack of communication is the biggest problem with this situation, we offer sedation and require an IV Catheter, perhaps if the owner had been offered the choice for sedation the outcome would have been much better, but you never know because her pet may have reacted to the sedation as well, it happens...
Again, my point of my post was not to say that sedation isn't warranted, it can be in some situations, but saying a veterinarian is stupid or an idiot because they don't use it is wrong. And to the original poster, I am sincerely sorry that your post about your beloved pet has turned into such a hostile thread.... I would also like to say that I would suggest you not go back to the clinic and give them a "piece of your mind" , what would that accomplish, they apologized, they didn't mean for your experience to go the way it did, we never do, having a pet struggle during such an emotional time is the last thing any good vet or tech wants.

 

[EweSheep]

I agree with JustPeachy....every animal should be treated case by case to the BEST knowledge, experience and sympathy by the vet. I would not fault them for doing the bad thing, they were very, very sorry that the dog had to go thru it. Sometimes even with the BEST vet or best heart surgeon, the patient would suffer a bit before they were gone. It is not unusual. It's just the normal reaction for the animal or the nervous system reacts to the lethal injection. Not every dog and cat would simply go to sleep painlessly and effortlessly.

We had a pony mare that foundered badly, the teacher found her at the auction and brought her to the college for vet studies. We gathered around, learning from the vet himself and the mare did not go down without a fight. I don't know how many tries the vet and some of the more experienced students had to find a vein without her every so lightly flinching that would make the needle jump at the sightest prick. It had to be at least five to seven times before the needle found home in the vein and the mare just went bonkers, despite of the horrible pain she was in. It took her a while for her to go down when the lethal injection was made but it did impacted us in a way that not all patients would go the same way as this mare did. The mare just absolutely refused to go down until the vet gave her a double dose of barbs and she finally went down and was gone quickly. Some of us cried but thankful she gave her life for us and glad to end her suffering. Then we practiced on her, with cuts and stitches, disboweled her, brought samples in to see how it functions, weight, color, texture, etc. And we even took one of her legs, cut it in lengthwise to see the damages that the coffin bone and founder did. It was a real mess, it just rotated badly that the tip of her bone was already exposed on the bottom of the sole of her hoof. No wonder this mare suffered. No, this vet did NOT give this mare a sedation first and it was not warranted at that time he felt that the mare would not benefit from it.



I would not call any vet stupid if the animal didn't go as planned. After all he IS human and mistakes bound to happen but he would make extra precaution that it does not happen again as long he is practicing veterinarian care.

 

[watchdogps]

That had to be horrible. I dont want to make you feel bad, but there is one thing I think should have been done differently. The vet should have backed off and let her calm down, rather than force the issue once she got upset. I have been there for many many euthanasias and most have not been sedated. If the animal gets all bent out of shape, you back off and let them regroup. I dont want you to feel bad, because the professionals should have done that. There should never have been five people fighting her to do this. But now, if you have to do this again, you should know that you have every right to tell them to back off and let you calm the animal down. It can make all the difference in the world.

 

[Cetawin]

uh huh never said a thing about caths nor did I twist your words I know from my personal experiences over the last 40+ years of legal adulthood what I have seen and I stick by comments and opinion.

 

[dainerra]

well, coming from my vet, he would say that any vet who didn't sedate was not only a fool but also cruel. 1) it is easier to not have to deal with a struggling animal. 2) when using an IV, you don't have to worry about collapsing vein. 3) if you sedate the animal, you ease the stress on the pet AND the owner.

again, it doesn't take any longer and has several benefits. He even sedated my rat when she had to be euthanized. She didn't have an iv, but he did give her a sedative to ease her passing. It is just a scientific fact that the drugs used to stop the heart cause distress and panic in the patient. It's a natural bodily response to the constrictions of the muscles and the fight to survive. Why would you want to put ANY creature through that?

 

[Okie Amazon]

Quote:
I have assisted with HUNDREDS of euthansias without sedation over my 20+ years in day practices and an emergency vet clinic and this is untrue. Where do you get this "scientific fact"? How much personal experience do YOU have with holding an animal while they relax and slip quietly away in YOUR arms? There is no panic and distress related to the drug. The first component of euthansia solution is SEDATION; pentobarbitol. The animals literally "go to sleep" before any respiratory or cardiac effects are experienced. Some animals hate being restrained - in that case, sedation may be warranted, but if the animal has compromised circulation already, you may be setting the animal up for repeated attempts to find a viable vein, not very enjoyable, sedated or not.

Heather, I am so sorry that your experience was upsetting for you. I know how that is, one of my cats had the same reaction; but inserting an iv cath would have been near impossible in his thin, already anemic, little body. Fighting with an animal to insert an IV cath FOR YOUR OWN CONVENIENCE can be more stressful and painful to the animal than just going ahead with the injection. Ever had a cath inserted? THEY HURT, far more than a regular needle!!! And you are assuming that the first go with a catheter works. You are just as likely to have trouble with a cath as you are the needle. Ever heard the term "friable"? That means that veins are extremely fragile - as is often the case with animals that are elderly/ill already.


Heather, you did the humane and loving thing for your dog, and I'm sorry if anything said here has prolonged your pain.

 

[dainerra]

Quote:
I have assisted with HUNDREDS of euthansias without sedation over my 20+ years in day practices and an emergency vet clinic and this is untrue. Where do you get this "scientific fact"? How much personal experience do YOU have with holding an animal while they relax and slip quietly away in YOUR arms? There is no panic and distress related to the drug. The first component of euthansia solution is SEDATION; pentobarbitol. The animals literally "go to sleep" before any respiratory or cardiac effects are experienced. Some animals hate being restrained - in that case, sedation may be warranted, but if the animal has compromised circulation already, you may be setting the animal up for repeated attempts to find a viable vein, not very enjoyable, sedated or not.

Heather, I am so sorry that your experience was upsetting for you. I know how that is, one of my cats had the same reaction; but inserting an iv cath would have been near impossible in his thin, already anemic, little body. Fighting with an animal to insert an IV cath FOR YOUR OWN CONVENIENCE can be more stressful and painful to the animal than just going ahead with the injection. Ever had a cath inserted? THEY HURT, far more than a regular needle!!! And you are assuming that the first go with a catheter works. You are just as likely to have trouble with a cath as you are the needle. Ever heard the term "friable"? That means that veins are extremely fragile - as is often the case with animals that are elderly/ill already.


Heather, you did the humane and loving thing for your dog, and I'm sorry if anything said here has prolonged your pain.

I was quoting my vet, actually, regarding the nature of the drug. I have only ever had one animal euthanized without sedation, a rat. I can tell you the experience was 1000X different than any of my other pets. They were all sedated and quietly slipped off once the actual euthanizing agent was given. Rizzo, on the other hand, was much more traumatic. She started gasping and struggling as soon as the drug hit her system. She flailed and, literally, looked like she was being suffocated.

Her procedure wasn't handled by my usual vet, but another at the practice. When Dr Connor found out, he was very upset as the clinic rules are to always sedate the animal first.

As for the IV, I have seen the clinic do them in various veins all over the body, including in the neck. Much easier to insert an IV in a neck vein, even in a frailer animal. Of course, they also rub a little numbing agent over the site to ease the pain of inserting the IV.

As I said, just my preference, but I will go with a dr/clinic that puts the treatment of the animal first.