Dog training methods

[KtheChickenGal]

Like I said, I do not use negative reinforcement a lot, I totally prefer positive reinforcement over it. I was only trying to give an example. I have an amazing relationship with my dog, she's basically obsessed with me and not at all afraid of the leash because I do not use it to punish her, only to guide her sometimes in certain situations.

Like I said, I do not use negative reinforcement a lot, I totally prefer positive reinforcement over it. I was only trying to give an example. I have an amazing relationship with my dog, she's basically obsessed with me and not at all afraid of the leash because I do not use it to punish her, only to guide her sometimes in certain situations.

Sounds great. We're likely coming from different backgrounds with different objectives. Mine has been showing, including Westminster. I'm not young so there are probably great cutting-edge advances in training that I'm not aware of.

All dogs are different, and you certainly sound like you know what you're doing!!

 

[Somewhere_In_The_Clouds]

The difference between reinforcement and punishment is important to remember. They're two seperate things. I'm having a hard time putting this into words but there's numerous charts that explain visual far better than I can right now.

Things such as yelling and hitting actually fall under positive punishment. Adding something aversive to decrease a behaviour.

Whether you use a lot of treats or just praise, you are still using positive reinforcement as that is simply adding something positive to increase a behaviour.

 

[KtheChickenGal]

The difference between reinforcement and punishment is important to remember. They're two seperate things. I'm having a hard time putting this into words but there's numerous charts that explain visual far better than I can right now.

Things such as yelling and hitting actually fall under positive punishment. Adding something aversive to decrease a behaviour.

Whether you use a lot of treats or just praise, you are still using positive reinforcement as that is simply adding something positive to increase a behaviour.

Yes!!
Positive punishment: adding something your dog likes to increase a behavior. Treats, toys, praise, etc.
Negative reinforcement: taking away something your dog doesn't like to increase a behavior. Releasing leash pressure, etc.
Positive punishment: adding anything your dog doesn't like to decrease a behavior.
Negative punishment: taking away something your dog does like to decrease a behavior.

 

[KtheChickenGal]

Good point. I was attacked when I was 4years old by a tied up Wiemaraner, not exactly a dog known for aggression but treated so poorly by it's owners that it proves how you raise a dog has everything to do with how they turn out. I'd definitely use some negative methods in that situation!!

Ah, that's sad!!

 

[Somewhere_In_The_Clouds]

I do get where you're going here. It's just important to not apply human psychology to dog training....

I'm not sure how that's human psychology so you'd have to explain that to me.
I'm currently studying to work in the vet industry and that's the BASIC understanding of dog training they teach. I dont claim to be knowledgeable, or even experienced, in dog training or behavior. I just think it's important to properly understand terms when using them to discuss things. Verbal and physical punishment actually falls under "positive", even though it does not feel that way as everyone see it as negative.

 

[KtheChickenGal]

I still wouldn't use it. You've made it make sense for sure, but that doesn't mean it's a great idea. Leash pressure = pain. Taking pain away is not a top rated training technique no matter how you twist it.

Ok!! That's fine. You are totally entitled to your own opinion, especially with all your experience and success.
P. S. Just wanted to add that my dog is in no way scared of me or of training, the leash, or anything like that. Maybe I'm wrong. Maybe I should not use the leash to guide her. And i rarely do anyway. But she has fun training, she loves me, respects me, listens to me, is excited to see me even if I'm gone for 30 seconds, and I only adopted her 7 months ago.

 

[KtheChickenGal]

My Sheltie decided to run around the jump when I gave her the command (in French,) to jump over it. How, in your description of "take something she doesn't like away," would I solve for this? I think the leash scenario is only applicable to the "Down," command so how does this work in other training needs ?

You talking to me or the @Somewhere_In_The_Clouds person?

 

[KtheChickenGal]

You talking to me or the @Somewhere_In_The_Clouds person?

It's releasing pressure. Anyway you can apply pressure and then release it. Your dog goes around the jump you wait and look at them and give a hand signal and are silent until they go over the jump and then instant praise and reward.
I didn't make up negative reinforcement, I just use it sometimes in certain occasions.

 

[Pampered chicken girl]

I started training about 2 years ago with just my own dogs, now I work with dogs almost daily. At first I was definitely in the "positive reinforcement only" boat but as soon as I was met with my first behavioral issues to fix I learned very quickly negative reinforcement and positive punishment is very important to success in training with behavioral issues. I don't do hitting, yelling, or anything like that. But leash pops, a little tap, etc is very useful and won't harm your dog. Dogs correct eachother all the time, it's natural. You have to learn to do it correctly of course or it can negatively affect the dog. I'm in no way a professional, but I do plan on being one someday so this is my educated opinion. I reward my dogs for doing correct, I correct them for doing wrong, and my dogs are doing pretty good, they both have ribbons in obedience and rally.

I don't understand why there is so much controversy with using treats, if they are properly phased out you're dog should listen to you without them. If you just cut them off cold turkey, that may not be the case.

 

[Pampered chicken girl]

My Sheltie decided to run around the jump when I gave her the command (in French,) to jump over it. How, in your description of "take something she doesn't like away," would I solve for this? I think the leash scenario is only applicable to the "Down," command so how does this work in other training needs ?

It would work in lots of situations, not just down. But probably not the situation you are stating since there is no way to implement with the dog off leash. It would work if the dog was still on leash in training. Not every method can be used in every situation.