Dosage for Wazine 17

[dawg53]

Here you go Centrarchid, why dont you watch some "Monsters Inside Me" and see what happens when a roundworm infects a child:

 

[centrarchid]

I know about the inactive bug in the eyelash. After coming back from overseas in the military, I can assure I've been tested clean from internal parasites. Can you say that? Guess what the docs give you if you get tapeworms Centrarchid...yep, praziquantel.
if you think you have worms Centrarchid, I'd advise you to get to a doctor and get treated. Some types of worms pass right through internal organs causing EXTREME damage. Same is true about any mammal...including your beloved dogs....you KNOW this!

Most of the parasites you carry are not something your doc will be screening for. I do also know folks that have gone over sees and picked up bugs and they were treated. Locals in same locations had to deal with same parasites without treatment and most thrived. The Americans simply did not have time to develop immunity or had not been from stock that survived selection in the face of such parasites.


What can you tell me about game hens pushing 10 years old that have never been wormed? They are free-ranged and have overlapped with birds that had to be wormed.

Overall, you can continue treating your birds as you deem fit. Please for the sake of your birds not stop once you start. Do not sell eggs from such stock to people that do not treat like you do. And do not allow birds so treated for many years to carry what are likely medication resistant strains of parasites off your place. Some of us would like to have effective drugs for as long as possible.

 

[dawg53]

Quote: Again, your soil conditions dictate when birds should wormed. If you live in the dust bowl, good for you and your birds. They are less likely to get worms.
People, like animals, do not build resistance to worms. Provide your scientific proof, not hearsay and misinformation.

 

[centrarchid]

Again, your soil conditions dictate when birds should wormed. If you live in the dust bowl, good for you and your birds. They are less likely to get worms.
People, like animals, do not build resistance to worms. Provide your scientific proof, not hearsay and misinformation.

I currently live in Missouri. Lived nearly forty years in southern Indiana with fowl under conditions every bit as moist as you enjoy. I may have to look into worm resistance but have not had to since been successful for so long.


I an find evidence for genetically based worm resistance involving goats in the short-term. To make your life easier I suggest you do a literature search on Kiko goats versus Boer goats. I know some folks making science based headway in selecting for barber worm resistance in the Boer goats by infusing variation coming from Kiko goats. Equivalent information probably does not exist for chickens owing to the all-in, all-out strategy used with poultry since prior to development of current de-wormers.

 

[dawg53]

Quote: Again, people and animals cant build resistance to worms. Have a good evening.

 

[centrarchid]

Again, people and animals cant build resistance to worms. Have a good evening.

Dawg53,

I suggest you check the following links. Read carefully, taking breaks between articles. Most are as abstracts. I find the need to sleep after getting so much new information that is contrary to what I thought was reality. Then we can resume. Good night to you as well.


Once I found how abundant the literature is supporting my points, it became evident the best approach was to simply provide a list of links. All my points are supported with at least one group of organisms and surprisingly most are even supported by literature dealing specifically with chickens which I did not think existed. This is not my area of expertise but it is clear there is a lot of expertise out there.

Peruse following:
http://scholar.google.com/scholar?hl=en&q=parasite+resistance&btnG=&as_sdt=1%2C26

for these

Sheep
http://www.pnas.org/content/95/7/3714.short

Fish
Enhanced innate immunity promoted by exposure.
http://rspb.royalsocietypublishing.org/content/271/1535/197.short
http://aje.oxfordjournals.org/content/6/1/153.extract


Susceptibility aggravated by inbreeding
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1017/S1367943001001135/abstract

Coloration advertises resistance to parasites
http://www.jstor.org/discover/10.2307/3545863?uid=3739744&uid=2&uid=4&uid=3739256&sid=21102986050071


Specific to chickens / jungle fowl
http://scholar.google.com/scholar?q=parasite+resistance+chickens&btnG=&hl=en&as_sdt=1%2C26

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1457377/

http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/00071666808415695#.UpFr9Vbna1s

 

[dawg53]

Common sense Centrarchid...after thousands of years of life on this planet and as far humans and all animals go, why arnt humans and animals resistant to worms? Simply because worms evolve as well in the same manner. There might be resistance to one or two types of nematodes, it's only temporary and a matter of time before they adapt as well, right back to their bloodsucking selves. Also, there are many types of worms that infect animals as noted in the links you provided and resistance is not shown to those types and they are just as deadly.
This is like the flu that goes around the world each year... a different strain is introduced in some manner and no resistance to it.
Like anything else, worms adapt and re-adapt.This will all continue until the end of time.
This thread is finished as far as I'm concerned, the OP can decide what to do.

 

[centrarchid]

Yes, it a never ending battle. Those that persist meet selection criteria, those that succumb do not. Both host and parasites experience both. Overall, the evidence is overwhelmingly in my favor. Yes, it should be over and you hopefully learned something in the process.


P.S. I must make a minor correction to your statement above. Not thousands of years, rather billions with at least 500 million with interactions between parasites and host as we currently know it.

 

[Michael Apple]

There is no genetic resistance to intestinal worms in regard to chickens. The previous articles linked by centrarchid do not support any evidence of this except in mammals. The last three links supported evidence of resistance to certain Cocci protozoa, not intestinal worms. Susceptibility to intestinal worms are determined by environmental conditions as this article from the University of Florida IFAS Extension clearly states:
http://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/vm015
Prevention and control of worm infestations in backyard poultry flocks involves proper management of diet, sanitation, and treatment. Chickens need a proper diet, especially an adequate supply of vitamins A and the B complex. A deficiency in these has been shown to increase the susceptibility to parasitism.

1. Thorough removal of litter between flocks of chickens.
2. Keep litter as dry as possible.
3. Avoid overcrowding.
4. Keep wild birds, pigeons and other birds away from chickens. They may be infected and shedding the worm eggs.
5. Provide adequate drainage of ranges and move shelters frequently to decrease accumulation of droppings.
6. Keep birds off freshly plowed ground where ingestion of earthworms and other insects is more likely.
7. Use insecticides to control insect populations.

The treatment of chickens to control intestinal parasites can benefit the grower by decreasing parasite levels in heavily infected birds. This will result in a decrease in the build-up of parasite eggs in the environment. Specific worm infections require specific medications. A determination of which worms are affecting your chickens should be made by your veterinarian prior to treatment. Proper use of medication in combination with sound management and sanitation practices should limit production losses from intestinal worms.

I wouldn't suggest regularly spraying insecticides all over the poultry yard, but I would recommend keeping grass cut short and pruning back brush. The less inviting the habitat for vectors of intestinal worms, the better off the flock will be. To simply cull fowl that end up with an infestation, as centrarchid suggests, is just poor husbandry. Flock owners will eventually have to deal with this at some point, and proper management and treatment will bring years of enjoyment of flock raising.

 

[centrarchid]

Systems of immunity are conserved across taxa. If mammals do it, then it is highly probably all vertebrates do so. You are sighting a single article (a white / extension paper) that describes many of methods I already follow that reduce infections. Additionally, follow the generic link at top to look for more yourself. How do you think the various worm taxa only infect certain host? Sometimes it is worms preference / limitations, other times the host is flat out resistant.


An expert on parasitology is needed here. None are on this thread yet. One that has an understanding of host / parasite interactions at the physiological level and how genetics are involved.