I also have used the vitamin K pills at times, but only one pill a half hour before dubbing. Never heard of sjarvis00`s ice water method, but I bet it works well. I try to dub in late afternoon/early evening, leaving a little time to observe the bird, but late enough so that he roosts soon after to minimize excercize after the dub. Never had excess bleeding with or without V K or any method I used. Either a towel wrap or a helper and a sharp scissor and a bucket of water to swish his head in is all that`s needed. Not hard at all........Pop