d'Uccle color genetics

[paris_r]

a series of questions here-please help as i am trying to figure out my breeding pens, so they can set up socially for a few months first.

one big question that i want to know from people who have bred the white duccles is is it dominant, recessive or semidom? (dont know what to put into the chicken calculator).

unrelated to colour but definitely genetic is my issue with foot feathering. i want to know from actual showers, is more/fuller feathering desired-and by fuller i mean all 4 toes and wrapping around the shank with lots of smaller feathers. i have this on a weedy porcelain cockerel (who knows he may fill out) but i have lots of golden neck and mille hens that are stocky but dont have more than the minimum on their second toe.

what can i use to add more black into the banded portion of my milles? i know white expression increases with age, does black?

what can be used to sharpen the line between the white and black on the feather tips?

what can i use to breed with to remove white from my millies? (i have some that have lots of small white (solid) feathers on their heads)

i have some red/blacks that have ideal bodies and carriage (and great personalities!) but lack in red and have a few white tips to a few feathers. what can i breed them with to increase the red (amount and depth of colour) in their offspring? what can i breed with to remove the few white (usually on feet) feather tips? are these white tips underlying expression of a pattern or just 'holes'.

i have some black mottled, some of which have solid white sections which are approaching pied. i really have no idea what to breed them too - i may just have to use them to produce blacks on the side. one male even has pigment in the comb -is this undesirable? i am guessing if i breed ones with minimal white tipping but no solid white feathers to a good mille pattern one i may produce a blue mottled of decent pattern?

i am also wanting to get chocolate in the line-i have full sized choc orpingtons but that is probably not a good idea since backcrossing will take forever. if i use bantam choc cochins, how many generations before i can expect an F1 mating (to produce the chocolate colour) bred back to pure black d'uccles (no f1 crossing) to produce a chick that has duccle features only? (read as 'showable')--have cochins been used in the past to outcross?

my stock includes mille fleur, blue mille fleur, self blue (lav), porcelain (roosters only), red black (birchen i think on chicken calculator), white (very leggy!!), black mottled (crappy patterns-some almost pied), golden necked.

 

[paris_r]

anyone?

 

[SonRise Silkies]

anyone?

That's sure a lot of questions and I don't think I can answer any of them!!!
You are going to have the blue gene to make any Blues, thats about all I know.
I just wanted to answer you so you'd know someone IS listening.
Hope you get your answers, sometimes you just need to break it down more.....just a few questions at a time and get the answers and then get to the next questions, that might help.
Cheryl

 

[triplejfarm2]

a series of questions here-please help as i am trying to figure out my breeding pens, so they can set up socially for a few months first.

one big question that i want to know from people who have bred the white duccles is is it dominant, recessive or semidom? (dont know what to put into the chicken calculator).

unrelated to colour but definitely genetic is my issue with foot feathering. i want to know from actual showers, is more/fuller feathering desired-and by fuller i mean all 4 toes and wrapping around the shank with lots of smaller feathers. i have this on a weedy porcelain cockerel (who knows he may fill out) but i have lots of golden neck and mille hens that are stocky but dont have more than the minimum on their second toe.

what can i use to add more black into the banded portion of my milles? i know white expression increases with age, does black?

what can be used to sharpen the line between the white and black on the feather tips?

what can i use to breed with to remove white from my millies? (i have some that have lots of small white (solid) feathers on their heads)

i have some red/blacks that have ideal bodies and carriage (and great personalities!) but lack in red and have a few white tips to a few feathers. what can i breed them with to increase the red (amount and depth of colour) in their offspring? what can i breed with to remove the few white (usually on feet) feather tips? are these white tips underlying expression of a pattern or just 'holes'.

i have some black mottled, some of which have solid white sections which are approaching pied. i really have no idea what to breed them too - i may just have to use them to produce blacks on the side. one male even has pigment in the comb -is this undesirable? i am guessing if i breed ones with minimal white tipping but no solid white feathers to a good mille pattern one i may produce a blue mottled of decent pattern?

i am also wanting to get chocolate in the line-i have full sized choc orpingtons but that is probably not a good idea since backcrossing will take forever. if i use bantam choc cochins, how many generations before i can expect an F1 mating (to produce the chocolate colour) bred back to pure black d'uccles (no f1 crossing) to produce a chick that has duccle features only? (read as 'showable')--have cochins been used in the past to outcross?

my stock includes mille fleur, blue mille fleur, self blue (lav), porcelain (roosters only), red black (birchen i think on chicken calculator), white (very leggy!!), black mottled (crappy patterns-some almost pied), golden necked.

I can only comment on the Millie color.... yes white increases with age..
foot feathering... its a seious fault to NOT have good feathering on the middle toe.... you want to breed using a really good feathered hen... we see that the hens pass this and the muff trait on better than roosters....

breed very dark mohogany hens and that will darken up the color and make the white more defined. It should be just a small white diamond and it should look uniform not splotchy... also, look at the undercoat of the breeders... only choose roosters with the distinct 5 colors on each feather and make sure the roosters have a nice band of SLATE color in each feather undercoat.. the hens typically are lighter in undercoat. If you breed one with little to no slate, you will keep getting a lighter bird.
only breed the best feather footed and muffed birds or you will completely loose the foot feather and muff...

 

[paris_r]

. its a seious fault to NOT have good feathering on the middle toe.... you want to breed using a really good feathered hen... we see that the hens pass this and the muff trait on better than roosters....

breed very dark mohogany hens and that will darken up the color and make the white more defined. It should be just a small white diamond and it should look uniform not splotchy... also, look at the undercoat of the breeders... only choose roosters with the distinct 5 colors on each feather and make sure the roosters have a nice band of SLATE color in each feather undercoat.. the hens typically are lighter in undercoat. If you breed one with little to no slate, you will keep getting a lighter bird.
only breed the best feather footed and muffed birds or you will completely loose the foot feather and muff...

i was wondering if too much feathering is a default too? i have a rooster that has insane amounts(see pic -taken from inside the leg looking out, its not best cause he was wet at the time)

-all 4 toes and a lot tight on the shank -is that a problem? i was going to use him to breed to hens which have great muffs but crappy foot feathering (only a few stray feathers on second toe -but great body types)

i dont have mahogany hens -though some of my golden necks are darker than others. i have only one deep mahogany roo but he already has some white -even an odd total white feather- but he is only 7 months old - just trying to hedge my bets here, even opting to use the porcelain roo with the highly feathered feet-hard though on him to tell if all 5 colours are represented well on him.

since you have the millies experience can you explain to me what one white feather per section disqualification translates to? how much is a 'section'

 

[triplejfarm2]

Looks like he has lots of little stubs.. But he really needs full foot feathering, the feathers on ours are 5 inches long or so, but yes they should be all the way up the shank, almost blending into the hock feathers .... And any stray solid white feather is bad... Pluck it and sometimes they come back normal... If not, we don't use them for breeding ... You really have to keep a lid on the white... It's like weeds... It can take over very quickly !!!

 

[ESofVA]

Here are a couple of pics of a hen that I purchased as a brown red d'Uccle chick from a hatchery:

She is totally black with any other color showing in these pictures actually just from my camera or from soil.
She has a beautiful blue and greenish blue sheen.
I have never found mention of black d'Uccles in the US. Has anyone else???

 

[ESofVA]

These are two pics of a project chick I came up with surprisingly. The cross is between a mille fleur roo over a bantam, frizzled, white Cochin hen, both many years pure for color.:

Any thoughts as to which best color of d'Uccle I should breed it to eventually try getting back to this color???

 

[triplejfarm2]

Here are a couple of pics of a hen that I purchased as a brown red d'Uccle chick from a hatchery:

She is totally black with any other color showing in these pictures actually just from my camera or from soil.
She has a beautiful blue and greenish blue sheen.
I have never found mention of black d'Uccles in the US. Has anyone else???

Yes Blacks are a showable color... saw several of them at the Ohio National a few weeks ago.

 

[ESofVA]

Not looking to show, but had wondered if she is black instead of brown breasted red. TY

What about the frizzle? Any thought anyone???