eating your pet open discussion

[Oliver Douglas]

Well, if it weren't for animal research, many would. Just sayin'...no insulin, no polio vaccines, no advances in heart research, surgeries....no pig valves for humans. Just enjoy your life and hope that you never need any life-saving procedures as a result of that research. I'm sure you will reject them, won't you.

 

[Mini Meat]

Think about this... in order for people to have pet chickens, eggs must be hatched. Clutches hatch out about 50% male 50% female. So for every pet hen you own a roo was also born. Were is he now? Did you accept responsibility for him? Is he in your coop now living the high life?

Every time you order female chicks to be created for your pleasure you are also ordering males to be created and ultimately, they will be destroyed. Some times the don't even make it past their first day.

To me, that is a waist of life. At least if you order straight run and eat the roo's they are not waisted and get some chance at life.

 

[pingu1]

To oliver douglas.. stay on topic. I dont eat meat. I wont eat chickens.

that's all part or the topic vegi v its a debate and even though I am a vegetarian I would if it were a matter of life or death and there was no other option I would take a life to save a life

 

[Oliver Douglas]

I was simply responding to the broad brush statement "No animal needs to die for us to live." A bit nebulous, there.

 

[Titanpaul726]

I have a pet lettuce in my garden called "Roma". I will be so upset if someone eats her, Ill just let her turn yellow and die natural causes at the end of the season.

 

[Drewnkat]

Can you guarantee 100% that the farms your vegetables are grown on are no-kill farms? Farms typically kill quite a few animals during the growth and harvesting of their crops.

Most farms and food production facilities trap rodents that try to get in and contaminate or otherwise destroy their crops. Here's a hint, those aren't catch-and-release programs. If those rodents are not killed, they will spread disease and filth through the entire food supply. In fact, it is legally required for licensed food production and distribution facilities to have rodent control and elimination programs. Thus, in point of fact multiple rodents have had to die in order for you to receive food.

How many insects have been killed? Far too many to count. Now, some people do not consider insects as being in the same category as "animals" and I respect that, however the fact remains those insects DID die in order for you to have food to live.

What about hunting? Without control of the deer, rabbit, and other populations, farmers' crops will be completely devoured. Unless some of the excess population die, the overpopulation will skyrocket until they have stripped trees and farm fields alike. Once populations reach critical levels, the animals will begin to die off of disease and starvation, suffering horribly until finally the population levels once again reduce to reasonable levels. Many of them will die due to vehicle collisions, in fact deer and other wild herd animals account for hundreds of millions of dollars in vehicle damage and injuries to drivers every year. Some claim the solution is to increase populations of wolves and other predator animals, but the fact is predators seek out the easiest targets, which means pets, livestock, and small children will be targets before the cunning and wary herds of wildlife.

Whether we are willing to acknowledge it or not, the survival of our species has depended on the life and death of many animals, whether they were used for advancement in medical science, for food/clothing/shelter, or simply killed to prevent the spread of disease/protect the family from predators.

I know that not all vegetarians maintain a stance that is entirely at odds with reality, many are quite sensible. However when I encounter people who are in deep denial about how the food supply chain actually works, I feel an irresistible impulse to present factual evidence. Certainly, those who are set in their beliefs may not be convinced, but others who have not considered the facts of the matter, or who are still making up their minds, may come to a more reasonable point of view.

I know this is a bit off the topic of whether or not it is ethical to eat livestock raised in a comfortable pet-like environment, but I feel it is relevant to the discussion as a whole, and particularly since the provably false statement that no animals ever have to die in order for humans to live has been trotted out.

 

[Oliver Douglas]

Thank you for bringing the reality of existence on Planet Earth to the forefront. Everything on this planet eats something else....I think it's called the "Circle of Life"....Plants require carbon, oxygen, sunlight, and soil nutrients to survive....herbivores eat those plants....and are often eaten by omnivores/carnivores...which eventually die, which, when they decay, provide nutrients to the soil. Then the cycle begins, anew. It isn't nice to fool Mother Nature...

Won't even go into the subject of their droppings....but manure is what it is...

 

[Titanpaul726]

No animal needs to die for us to live.

I can always respect another's opinion, but only if that person lives what they preach. To live this^^^ however, a person would have to refuse to drive a car, ride a bike or even walk on the grass (you will kill animals). They would have to accept infestations of insects/rodents inside their home. They would have to refuse to eat any food that is mass produced (many, many animals are killed in the farming process). They would have to refuse to use any fossil fuels (it is, after all, dead animals). They would have to refuse to mow the lawn (again, you will kills animals). They would have to accept their fate when an infestation of rats begins spreading plague. They would have to refuse to plant a garden (digging kills!). They would have to accept being infested with ticks, fleas and lice (or kill them, but you can't do that). They would have to ignore the rabid raccoon that is killing their pet chickens (NO animals have to die right). Simply put, human beings (or any species for that matter) cannot exist without having some impact on other animals. If you accept all this and more, I can understand your statement. But, if you do ANY of these things, or refuse to accept any of these things you are being a hypocrite and your statement holds no water.

Do you have to eat chicken to survive? Not here in the U.S. Do you have to eat chickens and other animals to survive in other parts of the world. Yep.
Do you have to eat beef, lamb, pork etc... to survive in the U.S? Nope. But you do have to eat. And unless you can magic up some green beans or a few heads of cabbage, your ability to survive without killing animals is nothing more than a fantasy.

 

[pingu1]

Nants ingonyama bagithi Baba
Sithi uhm ingonyama
Nants ingonyama bagithi baba Sithi uhhmm ingonyama Ingonyama Siyo Nqoba
Ingonyama Ingonyama nengw' enamabala

circle of life lyrics at the beginning
lion king

 

[sophiaw00]

I only posted a couple times in this forum, but I feel it neccessary to post again after my expirience today.

As I stated in my first post, I am a ninth grader who purchased my first flock for my agrictulture class final. I am raising them for eggs, but would have no problem killing (and putting to good use) a problematic chicken (ex. bothering my neighbors, hurting me or my hens, etc).

Today in my agriculture class, I expirienced something that I never would have particulary wanted to see. My teacher killed and processed a chicken right in front of me and my class mates.

The animal science class (the agriculture class above mine...it goes basic ag 1, basic ag 2, animal science) has been raising these chickens from day one for quite a few months now. They ordered them as day olds offline and kept them in a brooder in the class room. I saw the chickens when they were babies, but had no idea their fate.

I walked into class today and saw my usual desk covered in a tarp and my seat mate sitting somewhere else. I sat next to her and asked her what was going on. She didn't know. Class began like normal. My teacher, Mr. Trygg, began lecturing and we took notes. Halfway into out 85 minute class periods, Trygg silently walked out of the room and came back with a chicken. These past months I have become a bit chicken obsessed so I immediatley turned to my seat mate and whispered "that's a Rhode Island Red cockarel...I really want a few of those". Trygg told us what he was going to do and my jaw dropped. Some of my friends left the room and I was tempted to as well. I love my chickens, I really do, but I thought about this thread and I knew that I would need to know how to do this if I ever needed too with my own flock.

Before beginning, Trygg explained that a chicken can turn their head until it's facing completely behind them so that when he went to break his neck, he wouldn't be in pain. He also warned us that we might hear a cracking or popping noise. The cockarel was calm and sat in his arms like nothing was happening. He looked around the room at us and even let out a crow. A student from animal science came into the room - this was her chicken, she had raised this one from day one. She stood next to Trygg and took the rooster. The student, who we'll call Carly, said goodbye to the chicken whom she had apparently named Benny, before handing him back to Trygg. My teacher broke the chicken's neck and Carly cut off his head. That was the worst part...but there was no screaming, there was no crying and there was no pain felt from Benny. He was dead, but he continued to move and struggle in my teachers arm. My teacher let him bleed out into a garbage can and then began to field dress him. He plucked out the feathers, cut him open, removed his internal organs (which we all got to see and learn about each one) and then removed the meat, which SURPRISE looked just like the meat I buy from the store. I learned so much today and even though it was hard to watch, I pulled through and I now know that I could butcher a chicken if I needed too, but wouldn't unless it was neccessary.

Benny wasn't just a learning expirience, our class got to come back and eat him for lunch...he tasted delicious.