Effect on bator RH due to ambient intake air

[NTBugtraq]

I am trying to understand results I have gotten, but my searches have led to conflicting information.

Forced air incubator in a room. Room RH is 58%, temperature 65F. Bator temperature is 99.6F, and it says the RH is 28%. This is a Brinsea Ova Easy 100, so the equipment should be accurate. My hygrometer I used for the room has been verified as being 3% lower than the Brinsea readings (so reasonably accurate). There is no water inside the bator (no nothing other than its metal shelves).

Using various online calculators, with the ambient air where it is, the bator should be reading ~16.5% RH...but its 28%.

The only thing that makes sense of my observations is a change in the dew point temperature. If the room has a dew point of 50F, and the bator has a dew point of 58F, then I get the right RH numbers...but I don't get how the dew point could be different inside the bator.

 

[mirandaleecon]

I am trying to understand results I have gotten, but my searches have led to conflicting information.

Forced air incubator in a room. Room RH is 58%, temperature 65F. Bator temperature is 99.6F, and it says the RH is 28%. This is a Brinsea Ova Easy 100, so the equipment should be accurate. My hygrometer I used for the room has been verified as being 3% lower than the Brinsea readings (so reasonably accurate). There is no water inside the bator (no nothing other than its metal shelves).

Using various online calculators, with the ambient air where it is, the bator should be reading ~16.5% RH...but its 28%.

The only thing that makes sense of my observations is a change in the dew point temperature. If the room has a dew point of 50F, and the bator has a dew point of 58F, then I get the right RH numbers...but I don't get how the dew point could be different inside the bator.

How are you coming up with the 16.5%? There are so many factors that can influence the humidity inside an incubator, the temperature inside and out, the barometric pressure, air conditioner running, etc I don't think you will be able to come up with a predictable humidity through calculations unless you are a meteorologist and even then they never seem to be right anyway.

I think you are over thinking this whole thing though. Humidity isn't so important as long as the egg loses the appropriate amount of weight. Even if X% humidity works in one incubator, it might not work in another.

Unless I'm missing some other purpose to your post, I think if you just use observation to guide you, you will be just fine!

 

[NTBugtraq]

How are you coming up with the 16.5%? There are so many factors that can influence the humidity inside an incubator, the temperature inside and out, the barometric pressure, air conditioner running, etc I don't think you will be able to come up with a predictable humidity through calculations unless you are a meteorologist and even then they never seem to be right anyway.

I think you are over thinking this whole thing though. Humidity isn't so important as long as the egg loses the appropriate amount of weight. Even if X% humidity works in one incubator, it might not work in another.

Unless I'm missing some other purpose to your post, I think if you just use observation to guide you, you will be just fine!

Well, I love that you think its way more complicated than I think it is, but I am also over-thinking it...interesting dichotomy...

The air in the bator comes from the room...plain and simple...there's no water in the bator, so there's nothing changing between room and bator, other than its being warmed. I don't think a 100 egg bator can make enough of a difference in air pressure to cause some need to recalculate. So, its actually pretty simple even if the numbers aren't adding up.

The 16.5% number comes from the formulaes that say what happens when you have the numbers I have. Raise the temperature of air that has 58% RH @ 65F to 99.6F and you end up with 16.5% RH...its math. When there are no other changes to the air (e.g., no additional water, pressure changes, etc...) the resulting RH in the bator should be 16.5%...that's science.

To compare the relationship between a room and a bator in that room, to meteorology is, frankly, hilarious.

The purpose of my post is to help me figure out how I achieve 40% RH in the bator, something I have not yet been able to do with what comes with the bator.

 

[hodor]

Someone tries to help you and you speak down to them. You are not encouraging others to help you.

 

[mirandaleecon]

Someone tries to help you and you speak down to them. You are not encouraging others to help you.

I know, right?

Excuse me for trying to save you the headache of worrying about all of that when in practice, it's not needed for hatching. What works is what works, not some magical perfect number. Maybe some one else here can provide you what you're looking for...sorry if you thought I was trying to be insulting.

 

[NTBugtraq]

Someone tries to help you and you speak down to them. You are not encouraging others to help you.

That someone, as first response to my post, says; "Unless I'm missing some other purpose to your post, I think if you just use observation to guide you, you will be just fine!"

As I read that, they basically said there was no point to my post because I don't need answers to the questions I posed. Who is speaking down to whom?

I provided very specific information and a very specific question. What I got was someone saying; "to heck with RH, just weigh your eggs." Unfortunately, if my eggs are not losing sufficient weight, the only way to rectify that would be to lower RH%...since I have not yet been able to get incubator RH% to a reasonably low figure (40%), I am very worried that I will not be able to reduce RH% sufficiently to address poor weight loss.

But my question was not; "How do I hatch eggs"...which the poster's response seemed only to be concerned with.

The poster should not have assumed I did not care for the answer to my question. They should've, instead, not replied. If this makes other people refuse to reply, so be it, but if that's true, how does one get an answer to a specific question here?

 

[NTBugtraq]

I know, right?

Excuse me for trying to save you the headache of worrying about all of that when in practice, it's not needed for hatching. What works is what works, not some magical perfect number. Maybe some one else here can provide you what you're looking for...sorry if you thought I was trying to be insulting.

You weren't trying to save me a headache, you simply assumed I didn't need to know the answers to the questions I asked. That is condescending, and insulting.

I am not looking for a perfect number, I am trying to understand why the bator isn't responding the expected way to its ambient air intake. If you don't know the answer to any of the questions, or cannot suggest other tests I can do, you aren't assisting. The people at Brinsea are trying to figure out why this bator is doing what it is doing also, they don't know either.

 

[mirandaleecon]

You weren't trying to save me a headache, you simply assumed I didn't need to know the answers to the questions I asked. That is condescending, and insulting.

I am not looking for a perfect number, I am trying to understand why the bator isn't responding the expected way to its ambient air intake. If you don't know the answer to any of the questions, or cannot suggest other tests I can do, you aren't assisting. The people at Brinsea are trying to figure out why this bator is doing what it is doing also, they don't know either.

Okey dokey. If that's how you took it, I'm not going to argue with you.

Good luck in your quest!

 

[NTBugtraq]

Okey dokey. If that's how you took it, I'm not going to argue with you.

Good luck in your quest!

Please, stop already, its not how I took it, its what you said...sheesh

 

[hodor]

Quote:
Did you? You didn't ask a single question in your entire initial post, much less a specific one. You made some statements about your lack of understanding and expected people to work out what your question would be.

Quote:
Quote:
Your bator RH is too low, adding water will fix this. Experimenting adding water to containers with different surface areas until you hit the level you want (40% per your statement) is all you need to do. This is the using observation as a guide Miran was speaking about. Since you have posted this "question" on a Chicken forum in an area about incubating their response is very reasonable, it may not answer your specific question but would solve problems relating to incubating - the very purpose of this forum page.

Quote:
Yes it is "maths" and "science". Miran raised some very valid points here about there been lots of variables, which will increase further in number when adding eggs which all their variables in size, surface area, shell thickness, mass and permeability among others.

Quote:
Anyway the incorrect statement above gives insight into why your calculations fall over. So to answer your "question" (if I have identified it correctly), there is something changing between the room and the bator due to the differences in RH which create an effective concentration gradient. I.E the RH outside the incubator is high and inside low and the water molecules move from an area of high concentration to low concentration. I hope that helps.


In the future maybe you should address your own short comings before been so critical of others, or better yet just more understanding, especially of people that take time out of their days to help you.