Egg production problem in pastured chickens (fed sorghum, barley and oats)

[sourland]

I'm not a feed specialist, but my first guess is that this diet is too low on protein - there's only so many insects they can catch. Any road killed critters available ? That's only partially in jest. Scraps from animal processing if available might help.

 

[centrarchid]

I could not even touch this without better information on what the free-range forage offers. Forage can easily be over consumed if birds confined on too small an area. By forages, I am emphasizing insects and the like a protein sources. You can do a lot to increase insect abundance as a function of how the plant community is managed. You can also establish more composting areas.

 

[AnneDrum]

I'm not a feed specialist, but my first guess is that this diet is too low on protein - there's only so many insects they can catch. Any road killed critters available ? That's only partially in jest. Scraps from animal processing if available might help.

Haha I can buy fish meal, but I was always under the impression that it makes the eggs taste fishy, so not sure if I should try it. But I'm thinking of adding small amounts to see if it changes the taste. I have a whole bunch of meal worms that need to grow a bit more before I can feed them to the chickens... and even that won't be enough.

What kind of animal processing scraps are you talking about?

 

[rebrascora]

Do they have access to plenty of grit? If you are feeding whole grains they are going to need plenty of granite grit, unless you ferment the grains which softens them. You are also probably going to need more calcium than occasional egg shells and bone meal. I do not know what percentage protein is in the ingredients you are using but my guess would be that you are on the low side. You need to be careful feeding fish meal as it can make the eggs taste fishy. Many people assume medicated feed contains antibiotics when in reality it is usually just amprolium. That said, you do not want to be feeding adult laying birds amprolium on a daily basis. If you haven't already, I too would suggest you check the ingredients of your locally produced layer ration and do some research on the ingredients just to be sure. I appreciate that you want to give your chickens a healthy diet, but sometimes it is necessary to compromise as the alternative to the compound feed may be lacking in essential nutrients to keep them healthy and productive long term.

I would agree that just one cockerel in with your hens will make them less stressed which may help production and should keep them all fertile, unless there is a problem with the particular cockerel you choose to keep. Young male cocks are notoriously virile. The problem with more than one is that they competitively mate the females, so after the first one has mated a pullet/hen, another one will immediately jump on her and mate her and sometimes the first one will mate her again. You sometimes end up with two or even three males holding down a female and repetitively mating her whilst she struggles to get away. Usually things settle down a bit during the day, but first thing in the morning and in the evening is when things can get particularly rough in the mating stakes.

 

[AnneDrum]

I could not even touch this without better information on what the free-range forage offers. Forage can easily be over consumed if birds confined on too small an area. By forages, I am emphasizing insects and the like a protein sources. You can do a lot to increase insect abundance as a function of how the plant community is managed. You can also establish more composting areas.

That is possible. The over-foraging. Are you saying that I can add a compost heap to the enclosure?

 

[Fairview01]

What do you expect? All your feeding your chickens is scratch. Without plant or animal based proteins in their diet their lay rate is about as good as its going to get.

 

[AnneDrum]

Do they have access to plenty of grit? If you are feeding whole grains they are going to need plenty of granite grit, unless you ferment the grains which softens them. You are also probably going to need more calcium than occasional egg shells and bone meal. I do not know what percentage protein is in the ingredients you are using but my guess would be that you are on the low side. You need to be careful feeding fish meal as it can make the eggs taste fishy. Many people assume medicated feed contains antibiotics when in reality it is usually just amprolium. That said, you do not want to be feeding adult laying birds amprolium on a daily basis. If you haven't already, I too would suggest you check the ingredients of your locally produced layer ration and do some research on the ingredients just to be sure. I appreciate that you want to give your chickens a healthy diet, but sometimes it is necessary to compromise as the alternative to the compound feed may be lacking in essential nutrients to keep them healthy and productive long term.

I would agree that just one cockerel in with your hens will make them less stressed which may help production and should keep them all fertile, unless there is a problem with the particular cockerel you choose to keep. Young male cocks are notoriously virile. The problem with more than one is that they competitively mate the females, so after the first one has mated a pullet/hen, another one will immediately jump on her and mate her and sometimes the first one will mate her again. You sometimes end up with two or even three males holding down a female and repetitively mating her whilst she struggles to get away. Usually things settle down a bit during the day, but first thing in the morning and in the evening is when things can get particularly rough in the mating stakes.

I do soak the grains. I don't feed them extra grit besides what they are already exposed to naturally.
Unfortunately there is no layer feed that is hormone free or gmo free. There is however a food scientist in a different region in my country who is working at commercialising a fee feeds that would suit my criteria, so hoping that will be available soon. But as you say, perhaps I should compromise in the meantime.

I have seen 2 of the cockerels mating with the same hen right after the other. So I am definitely going to reduce the amount of cockerels to 1. It seems to be resounding with many of the kind responders to this thread.

Thanks for your input!

 

[AnneDrum]

What do you expect? All your feeding your chickens is scratch. Without plant or animal based proteins in their diet their lay rate is about as good as its going to get.

I hear you.
The thing is that the lucerne they feed on mostly is high protein. But perhaps the animal protein is lacking mostly.

 

[lazy gardener]

Have you tested and calculated protein levels?
Are you mixing in bulk?
Are grains cracked or whole?
Are you adding a poultry 'premix' to the grains that contains the basic and essential vitamins/minerals/amino acids that they need for efficient nutrient uptake?

Late to the game, but ditto. Perhaps you can get some Fertrell Poultry Nutri Balancer shipped to you? http://www.fertrell.com/poutrynurtibalancer.htm

Would be good if you put your location in your profile, easy to do and then it's always there. Will garner you better advice/suggestions

Agreed. very helpful

No poultry pre-mix as I am avoiding hormones, GMOs, and other nasties like antibiotics. I am sure where you are that you can get a pre-mix without those, but not where I'm at. I have thought of supplementing with tiny amounts of fish meal now and then. Most poultry foods here are corn-based which is going to be largely GM corn.

Fish meal, even fish. Road kill as long as it's not gone bad. meat scraps, Even an occasional bit of kitty kibble. Cat fish pellets. What's your coldest winter temp? You should be able to grow Black Soldier Fly larvae there. They are very high protein, also high calcium content, easy to grow.

Will one rooster be enough to fertilise eggs from 12 hens?

I've had a roo who easily kept fertility up with 24 hens. I'd remove all but your best rooster. You can even cook the others and feed them back to your hens in small quantity.

Your finding some eggs in nests, but maybe not all of them.
They are sneaky hiders of nests, confining them is the only way to be sure.

1 male should be able to fertilize 12 females easily.
Have read of much higher successful ratios in BY flocks.
Commercial hatchery/breeding standards for fertility efficacy is 1:10.
No guarantees, as fertility has numerous aspects.

Not sure if premix has any of the 'nasties' you want to avoid, but not giving them vitamins/minerals/amino acids may well be part of your production problem.
You might try searching, or starting a thread in, the feed forum to help balance your birds nutrition.

I forgot to mention that there's a tail feather pecking problem too, so could be a protein shortage among other things(as far as I've researched).

This issue is most surely due to poor nutrition in your flock. If you don't get this under control, it will continue on to cannibalism, and may become a life long habit that can only be curbed by culling.

That is possible. The over-foraging. Are you saying that I can add a compost heap to the enclosure?

Do a thread search for deep litter. Many of us do DL in both coop and run. The composting DL draws lots of beneficial insects. The flock will stay busy gleaning insects and seeds from the DL. Birds who have access to compost have more balanced flora in their guts, which leads to improved digestion, better feed conversion, and improved immunity. That composting DL will also help to keep pathogens in check.

Also, consider fermenting your feed. There is an article in my signature (not written by me) that explains the how and why of fermented feed. The fermentation process breaks down the anti-nutrients in the grains (sorghum is particularly hard for birds to digest) actually increases protein levels of Methionine and Lysine, increases B vitamins, and makes the grains easier to digest.

Finally, it may be necessary for you to relax your GMO standard. I understand your dislike of anything GMO. But, if your birds are clearly showing signs of malnutrition, which they are (decreased production, pale combs on roos, and feather picking) it's time to step up your game by any means necessary.

 

[centrarchid]

That is possible. The over-foraging. Are you saying that I can add a compost heap to the enclosure?

You have lot of birds. They need at least a couple hectares / few acres to supply protein needs. If less area, then only some of free-range benefits being realized. How much area involved? Could you show a picture?

I would use multiple compost heaps. The out layer are most productive in terms of invertebrate production. Even consider a night light to attract flying insects.