Egg too small, duckling pipped, struggling to breathe, no noise, day 28 - pic attached

[HostileMatron]

My horror story is in full swing and I could use some advice. I've got an egg on day 28 without enough room to move and it seems that he's beginning to struggle to breathe.

Backstory: My 8 month old Rouen duck (fostered her and her 4 brothers since 4wks) started laying eggs in February. I built a second house for the bachelors and the happy couple enjoy the honeymoon suite.. The entertainment value they bring to our lives is worth the toil, so we decided that we want more. I started getting educated, or so I thought. After many hours of reading and in person questioning of farmers and feed stores I somehow did not learn two VERY important lessons. Trying to hatch first-year layer eggs would be a nightmare, and hold all the eggs so that they incubate & hatch together. I am learning them the very hard way now. We collected 16 eggs and put them into a "starter" incubator (as we collected them). Incubation went horribly so the humidity and temperature have fluctuated. So, we spent the last 4 weeks hovering over the incubator. I built a separate set-up for hatching and as they need to be locked down I'll be putting them there. I did not know their eggs were NOT supposed to be only slightly larger than a chicken egg. I had never had, nor seen duck eggs. I'm a chicken girl, or I was until last summer when a drake started killing off his kids at a friend's farm. (He's new to ducks too) I took the little fluff-balls home and have been spoiling them ever since. On to the problem, which you probably know already.....

The eggs are too small for the ducks.. The first egg due died on day 27 after what appeared to be an internal pip. It did not externally pip. When this happened I took to the internet and learned that the air sacs will be too small and the egg size will keep the duck from being able to breathe. HORRIFYING!!!

For the second egg, I put in a safety hole on day 26, moved it to the hatching box, and upped the humidity to 75%. On day 27 I did candle the egg and it appeared that the bill was trying to pip from the wrong end. I looked it up a learned the bruising on the egg was him trying to get out the bottom. I know I shouldn't be touching them during lockdown, but I'm assuming 100% mortality rate if I don't at least try to do SOMETHING. This egg died this morning, day 28.

Then it was the 3rd eggs turn. I did the same and put in the safety hole before putting it in lockdown on day 26. Yesterday was day 27 and it internally pipped around 8pm (on the correct end). That was 23 hours ago. It's been active, but has not made any noise. I got brave and opened the egg a little to see what was happening inside. (Coconut oil in the hatcher to be sure it's the same temp as the duck.) What I saw was an enormous duck stuck in a tiny shell. He almost completely fills the egg. His bill did break through the membrane, but there are still lots of red veins. Throughout the day he seems to have sucked up most of the yolk, but this is just my uneducated guess. He does still chew and yawn occasionally, but also seems to be getting weaker. He's been kept moist and warm, but I'm hoping there is some way to help this little guy..... and the other 13 eggs coming behind him.

I understand that I can not crack their eggs to give them some room, and I don't know what to do. I feel like the very worst human on the face of the earth! It is not my nature to hurt nature. I fight hard for humans and animals alike on a regular basis. I just CAN'T believe no one mentioned that her eggs would be too small. Ugh!

Will it be a total massacre? Have I doomed them all to a terrible death? God help me, I meant no harm. The tears haven't stopped since I realized what we have done, and I'm holding out hope that something can be done. Any advice is SO greatly appreciated.

 

[HostileMatron]

He's made a little more progress and I'm hoping that he can make his way out. He did start chirping about an hour and a half ago so I'm still hopeful.. I'm going to add an updated picture. There's a little blood dripping in the picture. He did that himself when he was making his whole a little bigger. Seems to have stopped. I have not touched the egg since opening the air sac, other than a couple dabs is coconut oil. He's become quite the conversationalist and I would really love to meet him

 

[Kiki]

My horror story is in full swing and I could use some advice. I've got an egg on day 28 without enough room to move and it seems that he's beginning to struggle to breathe.

Backstory: My 8 month old Rouen duck (fostered her and her 4 brothers since 4wks) started laying eggs in February. I built a second house for the bachelors and the happy couple enjoy the honeymoon suite.. The entertainment value they bring to our lives is worth the toil, so we decided that we want more. I started getting educated, or so I thought. After many hours of reading and in person questioning of farmers and feed stores I somehow did not learn two VERY important lessons. Trying to hatch first-year layer eggs would be a nightmare, and hold all the eggs so that they incubate & hatch together. I am learning them the very hard way now. We collected 16 eggs and put them into a "starter" incubator (as we collected them). Incubation went horribly so the humidity and temperature have fluctuated. So, we spent the last 4 weeks hovering over the incubator. I built a separate set-up for hatching and as they need to be locked down I'll be putting them there. I did not know their eggs were NOT supposed to be only slightly larger than a chicken egg. I had never had, nor seen duck eggs. I'm a chicken girl, or I was until last summer when a drake started killing off his kids at a friend's farm. (He's new to ducks too) I took the little fluff-balls home and have been spoiling them ever since. On to the problem, which you probably know already.....

The eggs are too small for the ducks.. The first egg due died on day 27 after what appeared to be an internal pip. It did not externally pip. When this happened I took to the internet and learned that the air sacs will be too small and the egg size will keep the duck from being able to breathe. HORRIFYING!!!

For the second egg, I put in a safety hole on day 26, moved it to the hatching box, and upped the humidity to 75%. On day 27 I did candle the egg and it appeared that the bill was trying to pip from the wrong end. I looked it up a learned the bruising on the egg was him trying to get out the bottom. I know I shouldn't be touching them during lockdown, but I'm assuming 100% mortality rate if I don't at least try to do SOMETHING. This egg died this morning, day 28.

Then it was the 3rd eggs turn. I did the same and put in the safety hole before putting it in lockdown on day 26. Yesterday was day 27 and it internally pipped around 8pm (on the correct end). That was 23 hours ago. It's been active, but has not made any noise. I got brave and opened the egg a little to see what was happening inside. (Coconut oil in the hatcher to be sure it's the same temp as the duck.) What I saw was an enormous duck stuck in a tiny shell. He almost completely fills the egg. His bill did break through the membrane, but there are still lots of red veins. Throughout the day he seems to have sucked up most of the yolk, but this is just my uneducated guess. He does still chew and yawn occasionally, but also seems to be getting weaker. He's been kept moist and warm, but I'm hoping there is some way to help this little guy..... and the other 13 eggs coming behind him.

I understand that I can not crack their eggs to give them some room, and I don't know what to do. I feel like the very worst human on the face of the earth! It is not my nature to hurt nature. I fight hard for humans and animals alike on a regular basis. I just CAN'T believe no one mentioned that her eggs would be too small. Ugh!

Will it be a total massacre? Have I doomed them all to a terrible death? God help me, I meant no harm. The tears haven't stopped since I realized what we have done, and I'm holding out hope that something can be done. Any advice is SO greatly appreciated.

You see all the red veins?
This egg is not ready to hatch.

I'd leave it alone.

 

[Kiki]

I highly recommend that you stop putting safety holes in the eggs and let them pip on their own.

 

[HostileMatron]

Thank you, I do appreciate your replies, but I don't see how that would work.

I did not put a safety hole in the first egg. That duckling internally pipped, but did not externally pip and died in the shell after a day. I did not intervene with that egg at all.
After it died, I was given the advice to add the safety holes due to the small air sacs in the eggs. I should add that the original safety hole was only pin sized. I did not open the top until a full day after it internally pipped, without any sign of external pip. I read that a full air sac only gives 24 hours of air on several posts. The air sacs in my eggs are much smaller than they should be.

I do understand that the red veins indicate that the duckling is not ready. This is a large part of why I asked for help. The ducklings almost completely fill the eggs and are having trouble hatching.

I was hoping someone that has had large birds in small eggs could tell me that some can survive. If I do nothing, I doubt any will.

 

[New duck mommy 2021]

My horror story is in full swing and I could use some advice. I've got an egg on day 28 without enough room to move and it seems that he's beginning to struggle to breathe.

Backstory: My 8 month old Rouen duck (fostered her and her 4 brothers since 4wks) started laying eggs in February. I built a second house for the bachelors and the happy couple enjoy the honeymoon suite.. The entertainment value they bring to our lives is worth the toil, so we decided that we want more. I started getting educated, or so I thought. After many hours of reading and in person questioning of farmers and feed stores I somehow did not learn two VERY important lessons. Trying to hatch first-year layer eggs would be a nightmare, and hold all the eggs so that they incubate & hatch together. I am learning them the very hard way now. We collected 16 eggs and put them into a "starter" incubator (as we collected them). Incubation went horribly so the humidity and temperature have fluctuated. So, we spent the last 4 weeks hovering over the incubator. I built a separate set-up for hatching and as they need to be locked down I'll be putting them there. I did not know their eggs were NOT supposed to be only slightly larger than a chicken egg. I had never had, nor seen duck eggs. I'm a chicken girl, or I was until last summer when a drake started killing off his kids at a friend's farm. (He's new to ducks too) I took the little fluff-balls home and have been spoiling them ever since. On to the problem, which you probably know already.....

The eggs are too small for the ducks.. The first egg due died on day 27 after what appeared to be an internal pip. It did not externally pip. When this happened I took to the internet and learned that the air sacs will be too small and the egg size will keep the duck from being able to breathe. HORRIFYING!!!

For the second egg, I put in a safety hole on day 26, moved it to the hatching box, and upped the humidity to 75%. On day 27 I did candle the egg and it appeared that the bill was trying to pip from the wrong end. I looked it up a learned the bruising on the egg was him trying to get out the bottom. I know I shouldn't be touching them during lockdown, but I'm assuming 100% mortality rate if I don't at least try to do SOMETHING. This egg died this morning, day 28.

Then it was the 3rd eggs turn. I did the same and put in the safety hole before putting it in lockdown on day 26. Yesterday was day 27 and it internally pipped around 8pm (on the correct end). That was 23 hours ago. It's been active, but has not made any noise. I got brave and opened the egg a little to see what was happening inside. (Coconut oil in the hatcher to be sure it's the same temp as the duck.) What I saw was an enormous duck stuck in a tiny shell. He almost completely fills the egg. His bill did break through the membrane, but there are still lots of red veins. Throughout the day he seems to have sucked up most of the yolk, but this is just my uneducated guess. He does still chew and yawn occasionally, but also seems to be getting weaker. He's been kept moist and warm, but I'm hoping there is some way to help this little guy..... and the other 13 eggs coming behind him.

I understand that I can not crack their eggs to give them some room, and I don't know what to do. I feel like the very worst human on the face of the earth! It is not my nature to hurt nature. I fight hard for humans and animals alike on a regular basis. I just CAN'T believe no one mentioned that her eggs would be too small. Ugh!

Will it be a total massacre? Have I doomed them all to a terrible death? God help me, I meant no harm. The tears haven't stopped since I realized what we have done, and I'm holding out hope that something can be done. Any advice is SO greatly appreciated.

I wish I had seen this earlier. I to didn’t know don't incubate the first year eggs
My eggs were small as well and I had every issue happen my very first hatch
But I have 5 healthy babies !
Baby 1 needed assistance I did to much to soon and she was born with a small yolk. I didn’t know at that time to put her back in the shell and in a little cup or bowl with paper towel to keep the egg upright so she couldn’t kick out. This helps to keep the yolk from drying out. She died an hour after hatching
Baby 2 external pipped missing the air cell And on the underside of the egg. Thank goodness I was checking or he would have suffocated so no internal pip. He needed full assist and I was much more patient with help from @WVduckchick guiding me. He is doing great 11 weeks old
Baby 3&4 did text book hatch I didn’t need to help
Baby 5 there was a bruise on the wrong end and it was only day 25 I didn’t know what that meant and I lost her Later that day . Baby 6 internal but didn’t external and was stuck needing a full assist again I was patient and she was born and doing great.
Baby 6 was actually under mom with 2 other eggs. The other two internal pipped but never made the external and died. Baby hope ( moms last hope to have a baby she sat on ) was bruised at the wrong end. This time I knew I had to act fast I made a really small hole and took my time ( 50 hours ) to hatch her. She is 9 weeks and doing great
Most important thing is patients. Don’t peel to much to soon as long as baby can get air abd is yawning and chewing that’s good. Keeping the membrane moist coconut oil I used to look for veins but found Vaseline worked better at keeping it moist longer so I wouldn’t have to touch them as often.
Good luck you can have success and have healthy babies

 

[New duck mommy 2021]

I wish I had seen this earlier. I to didn’t know don't incubate the first year eggs
My eggs were small as well and I had every issue happen my very first hatch
But I have 5 healthy babies !
Baby 1 needed assistance I did to much to soon and she was born with a small yolk. I didn’t know at that time to put her back in the shell and in a little cup or bowl with paper towel to keep the egg upright so she couldn’t kick out. This helps to keep the yolk from drying out. She died an hour after hatching
Baby 2 external pipped missing the air cell And on the underside of the egg. Thank goodness I was checking or he would have suffocated so no internal pip. He needed full assist and I was much more patient with help from @WVduckchick guiding me. He is doing great 11 weeks old
Baby 3&4 did text book hatch I didn’t need to help
Baby 5 there was a bruise on the wrong end and it was only day 25 I didn’t know what that meant and I lost her Later that day . Baby 6 internal but didn’t external and was stuck needing a full assist again I was patient and she was born and doing great.
Baby 6 was actually under mom with 2 other eggs. The other two internal pipped but never made the external and died. Baby hope ( moms last hope to have a baby she sat on ) was bruised at the wrong end. This time I knew I had to act fast I made a really small hole and took my time ( 50 hours ) to hatch her. She is 9 weeks and doing great
Most important thing is patients. Don’t peel to much to soon as long as baby can get air abd is yawning and chewing that’s good. Keeping the membrane moist coconut oil I used to look for veins but found Vaseline worked better at keeping it moist longer so I wouldn’t have to touch them as often.
Good luck you can have success and have healthy babies

I want to add that Once internal pip it’s 24 hours then make safety hole then another 24-36 hours to hatch the baby
Those at wrong end or that external missing the internal are 48 or more hours.
If you see veins they are not ready
They may look uncomfortable as long as they can breath they should be fine. my last one even had some fast breathing but she needed more time to absorb. It was really hard watching her but I also wanted to give her the best chance to survive
I would pick a tiny piece of shell look at the veins if they were gone from that area I would roll it back over the shell then take another one
When I saw good veins I would leave it fir hours
Once the hole was a bit bigger I would take a dry Q tip and roll it gently between the baby and membrane removing that brown sticky goo
I wouldn’t go in deep just right by the shell area. As I took more shell I would do it again
None of my babies were born with the sticky stuff as I got it while helping them

 

[HostileMatron]

Thank you so much!!!!! Truly!!! This means the world to me! I took notes. lol! I've been all over BYC and it's been great. So much to learn! It seems you got a quick education. I appreciate the how-to very much. I am so glad you had successes Give me hope. It's awful to lose them

When I walked by the box a little while ago I looked in the window. I was able to see that he was not bleeding after all. It's just a big vein or blood vessel. It looked like blood on the camera. Phew!

I have not had the best start to duck parenting. I'm keeping my fingers crossed that when I get through all the worst case scenarios I'll have a yard full of Rouen's happily quacking about. For now, I'll be watching the camera I have in the hatching box as if I'm binge watching a good show. hahaha As long as he doesn't have trouble breathing I can easily resist the urge to assist him. He seems to have moved himself around enough to gain a little breathing room. I still don't know what I'm seeing when I look in there, so hopefully he's in a decent position. With a little luck tomorrow at some point he'll just pop out on his own. There's a 2 day lull before the next one is due. Ugh!

I got my ducks from a farm I planted at last year. Their father was trying to kill them. He successfully killed 3 before the farmer removed them, but 2 more died when a raccoon got into the bird house. The poor things were only 4 wks old! Of the 5 that survived, 2 had been bitten by the raccoon. One had huge deep holes in his back and neck which were filled with maggots. The other had only small holes, but one eye was blinded, his bill no longer lined up properly, and it appeared that he had a stroke of sorts. The farmer was going to "put them out of their misery", so I asked if I could take them. In the end I got all 5 ducklings and set out to rehabbing them. Maggots were new to me. NEVER want to do that again. I now know more than a person should. hahaha Took 2 days to get all the buggers out of his spine! There were 4 deep holes that went beyond each side of his spine, which I'm assuming is why he couldn't walk or swim. After assessing him I decided that I would take it hour by hour, trying to weigh will to live with quality of life. I built a sling to support him while he tried to swim. On his own he would topple over in the water, unable to move his legs. The sling made him very happy because he could dunk his head. I used the same sling like a marionette to get him walking. Throughout it all he was eating, drinking, pooping (of course) and still enjoyed the company of his mates. I built a separator and bed for him in the duck house so he was safe but didn't have to be away from his buddies. I wasn't sure how far back he'd make it, but he obviously wanted to try. In the end we can no longer tell him apart from the others so it was well worth the effort. The other injured duck didn't fare as well. He's a happy duck and is accepted by the other drakes, but his left side hangs a bit, and his bill is permanently misaligned so he has chronic wet feather. He's a mess, but he's my mess and I love him. hehe

This pic is egg #3 from just over an hour ago. I think he looks ok, but that's another uneducated guess on my part.

 

[HeatherKellyB]

Guide to Assisted Hatching for All Poultry

Have you read over this article? It covers many of the things you've mentioned and I believe you'll feel a little more confident after reading it. It's insane to me how any chick and/or duckling fits inside the egg, after it's hatched. Being tight in that egg to some extent is actually helpful in their hatching. Of course there are cases when the hatchling grows too large but that's usually because the humidity and/or temp is off. I've hatched egg from hens that were under a year. Of course it wasn't the very first few eggs, but they were under a year. I would just focus on the hatch and try to stop beating yourself up over this. There's a chance that the egg sizes are fine. As long as you make sure the temp and humidity are correct throughout incubation, you will have less risk of problems. I think you're doing great and your ducklings and ducks are lucky to be yours

 

[New duck mommy 2021]

I highly recommend that you stop putting safety holes in the eggs and let them pip on their own.

Thank you so much!!!!! Truly!!! This means the world to me! I took notes. lol! I've been all over BYC and it's been great. So much to learn! It seems you got a quick education. I appreciate the how-to very much. I am so glad you had successes Give me hope. It's awful to lose them

When I walked by the box a little while ago I looked in the window. I was able to see that he was not bleeding after all. It's just a big vein or blood vessel. It looked like blood on the camera. Phew!

I have not had the best start to duck parenting. I'm keeping my fingers crossed that when I get through all the worst case scenarios I'll have a yard full of Rouen's happily quacking about. For now, I'll be watching the camera I have in the hatching box as if I'm binge watching a good show. hahaha As long as he doesn't have trouble breathing I can easily resist the urge to assist him. He seems to have moved himself around enough to gain a little breathing room. I still don't know what I'm seeing when I look in there, so hopefully he's in a decent position. With a little luck tomorrow at some point he'll just pop out on his own. There's a 2 day lull before the next one is due. Ugh!

I got my ducks from a farm I planted at last year. Their father was trying to kill them. He successfully killed 3 before the farmer removed them, but 2 more died when a raccoon got into the bird house. The poor things were only 4 wks old! Of the 5 that survived, 2 had been bitten by the raccoon. One had huge deep holes in his back and neck which were filled with maggots. The other had only small holes, but one eye was blinded, his bill no longer lined up properly, and it appeared that he had a stroke of sorts. The farmer was going to "put them out of their misery", so I asked if I could take them. In the end I got all 5 ducklings and set out to rehabbing them. Maggots were new to me. NEVER want to do that again. I now know more than a person should. hahaha Took 2 days to get all the buggers out of his spine! There were 4 deep holes that went beyond each side of his spine, which I'm assuming is why he couldn't walk or swim. After assessing him I decided that I would take it hour by hour, trying to weigh will to live with quality of life. I built a sling to support him while he tried to swim. On his own he would topple over in the water, unable to move his legs. The sling made him very happy because he could dunk his head. I used the same sling like a marionette to get him walking. Throughout it all he was eating, drinking, pooping (of course) and still enjoyed the company of his mates. I built a separator and bed for him in the duck house so he was safe but didn't have to be away from his buddies. I wasn't sure how far back he'd make it, but he obviously wanted to try. In the end we can no longer tell him apart from the others so it was well worth the effort. The other injured duck didn't fare as well. He's a happy duck and is accepted by the other drakes, but his left side hangs a bit, and his bill is permanently misaligned so he has chronic wet feather. He's a mess, but he's my mess and I love him. hehe

This pic is egg #3 from just over an hour ago. I think he looks ok, but that's another uneducated guess on my part.

What an amazing story !
I know how you feel loosing a baby thinking if you had done more. The two I lost still haunt me. I am very pleased with the babies I do have though
Those thick veins will start to drain as baby gets closer to hatching. Baby looks good and his beak isn’t blocked so he can breath
When the babies are hatching they will move into the air cell filling the egg. When my one that pipped outside the air cell was ready to start moving a little shell we headed down towards the air cell and there was no air cell left it was full baby. I learned this is normal
How does baby look this morning ?
I’m glad I could give you a little hope
They also can hatch on their own as I said 2 of mine fully hatched with no help that was a big break for me
Here is a few pics of my babies back in December and this week