Egg Yolk Peritonitis Prevention or Management

[emilysteng]

I hope you don't mind me butting in on your conversation. I'm sorry to hear you are going through this. I'm going through a similar thing with my girl Casino. She has been to the vet twice now and gotten injections of Lupron and had one round of Baytril. She was eating but stopped eating last week before her second visit. But now the past two days she has been eating a bit of feed and some grape and papaya again.

But I'm a little confused. The vet said she probably has EYP or maybe an ovarian tumor. He does treat chickens pretty regularly and hadn't heard about the term internal laying. But he seems to think internal laying is just another term for EYP. But here it seems people talk about it as two separate things. He said she probably was forming yolks but they weren't going to the oviduct and that is why she has the fluid buildup in her abdomen. So are they the same or different?

Also, Casino's poops are quite watery these days. I guess I thought it was cause she wasn't eating much. She still drinks plenty of water and the past few days I have let her out in an enclosed area and she has gotten to eat some bugs and I think she picks up a lot of dirt which seems to come out in her poop. Is the watery poop a sign of anything else besides not eating much?

I'm not sure how your hens act when they have EYP. Being a wild chicken, maybe she's different. Casino is not HER usual self, but I guess she is at low activity. But she is usually running around the nursery all day catching bugs and geckos. Since I've been keeping her confined but she is still very alert, perky, etc. I don't think she is in any pain as far as I can tell. She scratches around when I let her outside. She's a bad girl and made an attack on a hen we visited (the lady let Casino scratch around in her coop). She does seem to rest more than usual, but that is it.

Thanks so much. I hope your girl gets better soon.

 

[Mitfordsmom]

Thank you so much for your kind words and advice. My girl died overnight. She looked very comfortable in her little bed I made her and I hope it was quick. Now I am wracked with guilt that having her drained killed her, she looked so unwell after the procedure but I really felt I had to give her a chance. I read so many stories of chickens being drained and coming back as good as new, if I had not tried it and just let her go I would have felt I failed her. So why do I feel so guilty?

Emily - I think EYP is where the yolk gets diverted and internal laying is where actual eggs are trapped inside - I'm sure the experts will tell us if this is correct or not. With EYP there's hope that the hen will absorb the yolks and if you search EYP you'll read stories of hens who have swollen tummies all summer but once the laying season is over they absorb some of the fluid and are relatively normal or who get better after being drained. But once the vet told me yesterday that there were eggs deep in her oviduct I new we were in trouble - she wasn't going to be able to lay them and she was too weak to operate on to remove them and who knows how long they'd been there?

I think the warning to all is to watch your chickens for any unusual signs, my girls were ex-bats and I don't think Diana ever laid an egg which I thought was cute but clearly it is a bad sign. I have another girl who hasn't laid in a long time - I'm going to take her to the vet to check she is alright - something tells me I'm in for a long ride with these girls. But it won't stop me getting more, I have never had such happiness from such simple things as watching them scratch in the flower beds or spreading their wings in the sun. RIP Diana.

 

[emilysteng]

Oh I'm so sorry to hear about your loss!!! I totally understand how you feel. I don't think you should feel guilty - you did as much as you could and as well as you could. But I understand your being torn about it anyways - even if you know you did your best. It's so hard with animals you love. Sometimes I wish I didn't care about animals so much so it wouldn't hurt so much and I wouldn't worry so much, but I know that is silly.

I'm currently feeling torn with how I'm caring for my girl too. I can't decide if I should keep her confined, as it makes her unhappy, or to let her go and be herself but be open to the dangers of the wild. I have been trying to compromise and let her be outside in confinement, but I can tell she still wants to get out and be herself. (Normally she runs around completely free at the nursery I work at). I just worry so much if I let her go, she will not show up one day and I won't be able to find her and never know if I could have helped her. But am I making things worse by keeping her confined? At least I know she is safe, but it is making her unhappy and probably stressing her out to some extent also. I have been doing a bit of force feeding with this Emeraid Omnivore-Avian food powder you mix up with water and give them. But she hates that too.

Thanks for the info on the EYP/Internal laying. I guess I am still a bit confused though. I know there is egg bound where the eggs are fully formed with shells and then they get stuck right? But then if internal laying is also eggs are formed but trapped what is the difference between egg bound and internal laying then?

The vet seems to think EYP because he says she has fluids built up and hopefully they will get reabsorbed. He said xrays wouldn't be helpful because the fluids would make it hard to see anything and only possibly an ultrasound would be able to see anything. But he also says an ovarian tumor is possible. She was losing alot of feathers a few days ago but that has seemed to slow down now.

Sometimes I wonder if I caused Casino to get problems. Because the wild chickens around here don't seem to have any issues laying eggs. There are two hens around that have been around as long as Casino has and they regularly lay and are healthy. I wonder if it is because I started feeding her and then giving her commercial feed. Maybe that is causing problems. Or maybe because I took her eggs away and then she laid more than she would have if she had tried to hatch every batch. So you see - I am going through all the guilt too.... What if it's my adopting her that actually caused her to get laying issues?

 

[Mitfordsmom]

Ah thank you, I have read some more on the forums and I think internal laying is when the yolk gets delivered to the internal cavity instead of the egg and this then leads to EYP.

This is only my opinion but if I were you I'd let your girl be free if it's what makes her happy. If she does have EYP or a tumour and she does die from it, her death will be quick so she won't be lying suffering somewhere. If she's happy and content she might have more of a chance of recovering. If you keep her locked up your lasting memories of her will be of her being unhappy and desperate to be free. I wish we had a switch we could turn off to stop us caring about animals so much but then what would the world be like? So we just have to accept that in return for all the happiness animals give us we have to suffer the pain of losing them. If we do all we can to look after them we have that as a consolation. Good luck - let me know how it goes - I'm off out to check up on my other three girls - it's very windy today here in England and they don't like that! x

 

[Mitfordsmom]

PS - I'm sure your care and food have kept Casino going - please don't blame yourself - you are doing your best for her and it's just coincidence she's the ill one. She is very lucky she has you to look after her.

 

[speckledhen]

Internal laying is where the egg yolks build up with infection (the EYP part) and "cook" into a cheesy mass, either in the abdomen or the oviducts or both. GRAPHIC PIC BELOW!


This is what internal laying looks like, from one of our necropsies on a hen who had not laid an egg in many months:

 

[Mitfordsmom]

Gosh Cynthia - it makes me realise Diana was never going to get better - she looked very peaceful and comfortable this morning when I found her - I'm so glad I brought her in last night and I knew she was safe and warm. As to your signature are you sure it's just a hobby - these chickens seem to have taken over my entire life!

 

[klmclain1]

Maybe this will help - Definition: Peritonitis is an inflammation of the peritoneum, the serous membrane that lines part of the abdominal cavity and viscera. Peritonitis may be localised or generalised, and may result from infection (often due to rupture of a hollow organ as may occur in abdominal trauma or appendicitis) or from a non-infectious process.

So, my understanding (someone correct me if I'm wrong)... peritonitis can RESULT from internal egg laying...among other things.

In my case, my girl had the beginnings of peritonitis from infection. I think she has been my soft-egg layer and perhaps one ruptured inside her. We get one about every 2 or 3 weeks. As I said, I caught it VERY early. It had not gotten to the point in the picture - it was still in strands and small clumps of "cooked yolk" - about the size of maybe a doubled strand of spaghetti! This in a clear watery discharge. She didn't even have a swollen or red abdomen.

I'm so sorry your girl passed...but I think she went peacefully and knew that you had done everything you could to help her. You should not feel guilty. We do our best to help them heal, make them comfortable when we can't. You did your best. God knew when it was time to take her.

Biggest hugs...

!

 

[Mitfordsmom]

Thank you so much - I don't know what I would have done without all you wonderful people who have responded to me - not everyone understands what individual little creatures these hens are!

 

[EweSheep]

I heard some time ago, someone spayed their hen and it lived a long life. I would imagine if it was caught early, spaying might be possible. However it takes a hit on the pocketbook.