Emerald Pied Spaldings

[deerman]

Quote:
OK I'll bite, I knew you were looking to stir up stuff with your first statement.

The father seems to be a spalding 50% (green X IB pied)
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YOUR ASSumption that he is 50% is wrong. He is 7/8 th green, I purchased him directly from Lewis Eckard, one of the times I was at his place and picked him out.

the female may also be a spalding pied or an IB pied with some drops of peacock green blood ( she has so short legs )
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The hen is also more than 50%. A couple indications would be the dark breast and green coloration coming down the neck farther than on a India Blue Pied hen.

Here is a photo of the hens father: (on the right)
http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w172/spectrumranch/birds/1spmalesrj.jpg

I'm OLD SCHOOL and the term "emerald" was used to describe birds with a green chest. Maybe some people have been bullied into dropping the term on forums & have switched to using percentages. However I prefer the emerald term as it defines birds that have green coloration.

I travel some, infact in the last week I have been in six states and stopped at several farms and seen LOTS of peacocks, was at one today with about 250 peacocks for sale; I also attend several sales and auctions and I must say that the term "emerald" is still used widely in the real world.

I like the spalding for the length of they legs which gives them the grace .... elegance.
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Thanks for your opinion, I think all peafowl are elegant.

Making Spalding with short legs it makes no sense!
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Funny thing, as experienced breeders know, when dealing with a cross, you may not always produce what you would prefer. Problem with using the percentages is one bird may have more green coloration than another that is a higher percentage or siblings may even range in the green coloration​

Emerald was any bird with 3/4 green blood.

In your own words green coloration may range by %......just prove how people get rip off by people calling birds emerald , when they are not even 3/4 green.​

 

[deerman]

From your post....

I'm OLD SCHOOL and the term "emerald" was used to describe birds with a green chest. Maybe some people have been bullied into dropping the term on forums & have switched to using percentages. However I prefer the emerald term as it defines birds that have green coloration. I travel some, infact in the last week I have been in six states and stopped at several farms and seen LOTS of peacocks, was at one today with about 250 peacocks for sale; I also attend several sales and auctions and I must say that the term "emerald" is still used widely in the real world.


Do a search on Emeralds peafowl you will find they are at least 3/4 green blood

heck you don't even know what a emerald is.....see why you like using the term.....you get more for your birds calling birds emerald when in fact they are not(have to be 75% green),,,,,,,,its not those chicks you have listed on here as emeralds...mother shows that.

 

[AquaEyes]

I don't understand why the percentage of green makes such a difference in the long term. If your goal is to breed toward the green phenotype, look for birds that meet your requirements. Because the hybrids vary in appearance whenever you are breeding any kind of Spalding X Spalding, the percentage of green in these crosses really shouldn't matter as much as what the offspring look like. And in the very minute chance that all of the IB genes from each 3/4 green Spalding parent line up in one offspring, VISUALLY it could look the same as a 50% green Spalding, despite both parents qualifying as being "Emerald." What matters more than the heritage of the ancestors is which genes ended up in the bird in front of you, and if it displays a lot of green characteristics, then it has a lot of green genes for those characteristics. This variability happens more when breeding Spalding X Spalding than Spalding X Green.

I think some of the hybrids are very beautiful, especially in the different color mutations -- personally, I don't see the point in breeding birds with such beautiful colors with patches of white "erased" areas all over, but that's just me. I just wish that rather than continually breeding to pure greens, breeders would try and stabilize the phenotype in the hybrids to create a relatively pure-breeding Spalding. There are breeds of chickens which were created from putting together several breeds that were selected for desired traits to breed true. The first few generations of breeding these hybrids together resulted in a wide variation in offspring, but selecting offspring with desired combinations and breeding only them together will stabilize the phenotype over time. It would take a few generations, and thus a longer time for peafowl, but I think it would be possible. And then, perhaps, the making of hybrids that are hard to tell apart from pure greens would no longer have much of a point, either.

 

[deerman]

AquaEye, I do understand what you are saying, here where the % counts so much to increase the % it thats many years, and true you can't tell birds apart by % , but just look how many year it would take to get a bronze to 31/32.

Most breeders that is what they are trying for, the type of pure green birds in the new color........most spalding are the results of that, myself and alot of other breeders wouldn't breed spalding to splading to get a spalding color bird(blue/green).

So we say a white 50% bred to a pure green you are going to get 75% spalding split white then take that split white 75% spalding breed back to pure green, then you get some split white(which with white you can spot)then back to pure green...so that way you want to know true %


Like alway need to know the breeder.......some just don't get the math right ,other will mislead people to get the most money.


Only breeder with good records , work for me....sad thing people will sell birds as other even as pure green....reason i have trouble with emeralds, you sell a emerald means it is at least 75% green......just cause it look emerald doen't make it so...just the same as selling high% spalding as a green just because it looks green.

So most are trying to get a bird as much like a green in type in new colors,.......as we have no mutation yet in the greens. compare a 31/32 white spalding to a white (blue) the high % spalding will amaze anyone.


so the years it takes to get the high % .........then you have people lying about the % really get to me...i understand mistake....but put it this way selling birds as something they are not........WRONG NO MATTER WHAT...and could cost someone years of breeding.

 

[Dany12]

Spectrumranch for sure that your peacocks are elegant and full of grace .... and even the type terminator (lol) but the photo is misleading.
I do not like the picture of peacock displaying .... we think we see everything but in fact we see nothing

 

[AquaEyes]

Quote:
Deerman, I understand, but at the end of the day, if the goal is to get a bird that looks "green" in body, but has the mutations of the IB, couldn't you assess that just by looking at the bird, without having to know the percentage of its ancestors that were green? I mean, imagine in front of you is a bird with the exact physical outline of a green in body shape and dimensions, but Purple Blackshoulder in plumage. If the breeder put that together starting with Spaldings no higher than 75% green, and didn't cross back to pure green, does the ancestry really matter? The breeder has achieved his goal by selection and culling, and may have also done so in a reproducible pure-breeding line.

And again, while I acknowledge my preference for birds without white spotting, I wonder what the point of making a 31/32 Spalding in Silver Pied is. You're going through all the trouble of breeding generation after generation to green, but at the end of the day, you get a bird that's mostly white. You see the shape of the green species, but it seems that with all that white, it's easier to pass the bird off as being a higher percentage of green than it is -- because the plumage evidence of IB ancestry is mostly "erased" by being Silver Pied.

It just seems to me that the "culture" in the peafowl world is to encourage the value placed upon birds that, while beautiful, are not reproducible. The trend in Spaldings seems to be to keep breeding them to greens to increase the % of green blood. Well...where does it end? At what point do you say "Ah...I've achieved my goal...now I will fix the characteristics I want into my own line"? Meanwhile, more and more Spaldings get harder and harder to tell apart from pure greens, and many are (accidentally or purposely) passed of as being pure greens.

If the goal is to capture the beauty of the greens with the cold-hardiness of the IB's, then continuing to breed back to pure greens isn't the answer. You'll have to start SELECTING birds from Spalding X Spalding that have the desired traits of the greens but the hardiness (and mutations) of the IB's and create a pure-breeding mixed line. I've seen only a few websites that seem to be moving in this direction -- the majority keep promoting their Spaldings primarily by their % of green blood.

 

[spectrumranch]

Quote:
So the birds i posted photos of are not Emeralds?

What is a offspring of a 7/8 green male bred with 3/4 green hen? or with a 1/2 green hen?

Do a search on Emeralds peafowl you will find they are at least 3/4 green blood

How would anyone search for that term? according to you it is not used, percentages is used.

If I get more for my birds, it's because they are beautiful.​

 

[AquaEyes]

Quote:
I agree, and they are.

I have a question for you -- is this the first time you're breeding Spaldings together? Have you bred further generations (beyond F1 X F1) of Spaldings together? I'm curious to find out if you are breeding Spaldings together with the intent of trying to stabilize the intermediate phenotype, which is what I mentioned in my previous posts. If so, I applaud your efforts, and look forward to seeing more to come.

 

[spectrumranch]

Quote:
I agree, and they are.

I have a question for you -- is this the first time you're breeding Spaldings together? Have you bred further generations (beyond F1 X F1) of Spaldings together? I'm curious to find out if you are breeding Spaldings together with the intent of trying to stabilize the intermediate phenotype, which is what I mentioned in my previous posts. If so, I applaud your efforts, and look forward to seeing more to come.

I am breeding spalding to spalding. I have raised spaldings for over 20 years.

Even when I raised Javas, we did not breed them much with spaldings because I could buy spaldings from other breeders rather than cross my own.

I no longer keep many peafowl, only have about 30 right now at my place, but if I buy the flock of 200+ that will jump me back up. Althought I doubt that I am going to purchase them, they have alot of different colors and I do not have enough peafowl breeding pens at the SD ranch. Also not looking to increase the feed bill and picking thousands of peafowl eggs next summer.

I will have about 100 yearling peafowl for sale in spring from a friend that I co-own a flock of peafowl with. But those birds are only Blue India, Black Shouldered, WHite, Blue Pied, Cameo, Oaten & a few Black Shouldered Pied.

 

[AquaEyes]

Quote:
I agree, and they are.

I have a question for you -- is this the first time you're breeding Spaldings together? Have you bred further generations (beyond F1 X F1) of Spaldings together? I'm curious to find out if you are breeding Spaldings together with the intent of trying to stabilize the intermediate phenotype, which is what I mentioned in my previous posts. If so, I applaud your efforts, and look forward to seeing more to come.

I am breeding spalding to spalding. I have raised spaldings for over 20 years.

Even when I raised Javas, we did not breed them much with spaldings because I could buy spaldings from other breeders rather than cross my own.

I no longer keep many peafowl, only have about 30 right now at my place, but if I buy the flock of 200+ that will jump me back up. Althought I doubt that I am going to purchase them, they have alot of different colors and I do not have enough peafowl breeding pens at the SD ranch. Also not looking to increase the feed bill and picking thousands of peafowl eggs next summer.

I will have about 100 yearling peafowl for sale in spring from a friend that I co-own a flock of peafowl with. But those birds are only Blue India, Black Shouldered, WHite, Blue Pied, Cameo, Oaten & a few Black Shouldered Pied.

When breeding Spalding X Spalding, you likely saw a range in the offspring. Did you ever hold back the offspring that appeared "the most green" and select them for further breeding? I'd be curious to find out if you did so, and if you were able to get further generations closer to "breeding true" for a "green-like" phenotype without introducing "pure green" blood. Or were you primarily concerned with combining mutations on the hybrid phenotype, and didn't select for body size/shape, or strong "green" characteristics as your primary goal?