Enhanced Protein Feed - Winter?

[ellend]

@ChickenCanoe

I have seven 25 week old laying pullets and eight 5-6 week old chicks. While they have been integrated I still have the in-coop brooder in place and keep separate feed and water for their exclusive use. They also have access to the pullet feeders and water both in the coop and in the run below; I see them feeding from those locations and also from a dispenser that holds crushed oyster shell in the coop proper.

I wanted non medicated feeds and buy from reputable local feed suppliers, in both cases the feed is manufactured on-site. The only grower feed I could find is designed for ducks an has a 22% protein content, otherwise has "appropriate" balance of other ingredients; I will have to check for the specific of amino acids per your comments. I was hoping to use only the 22% feed for both groups at least through the winter. I do not give them many treats (certainly less than 10%) and those are limited to vegetable scraps and scrambled eggs.

Thanks

Excess protein damages kidneys--period.

 

[Ted Brown]

Excess protein damages kidneys--period.

How does one figure out what "excess protein" actually is? Physical signs/behaviours?

Given the diversity of replies herein there are some who use 20% over 16-17% protein feeds and, I suspect, some would argue with either choice. I guess that age, time of year, climate all factor into "a correct answer".

Yours is the 2nd(more?) post referencing caution about higher proteins so we can take it, at some point, as correct.

What is that point?

 

[ariri30]

Sorry that your lost your girls to egg binding! We did lose one to egg binding last year, and we have several that have laying problems. Jose is a leghorn mix that has hardly laid a normal egg in her 1.5 yrs of life. If she lays, it is often a soft shelled egg on the roost. I did try switching to laying feed for awhile to see if it would help her, but it didn’t seem to make a difference. I think our line of CCLs has a genetic egg problem, as one became egg bound soon after she began laying and one has always laid a rough, thin shelled egg. When we bred her for OEs, we did switch to layer for a few weeks first and that seemed to help her eggs a bit. Ours needed to figure out the oyster shell - mixing in baked egg shells helps as they love the eggs shells! We have almost 30 girls in the coop now, and they go through a ton of oyster shell, 2-4 cups a week. Our guineas also avidly eat oyster shell during their laying season, but I don’t want the cocks to eat layer. We may switch the chicken/duck girls all onto layer feed again when our juveniles are a little older...

It’s not easy to deal with picky eaters. The way I’m doing it seems to be working now. I put out both feeds and I put the layers higher that the starter so the little ones can’t reach it and it seems to be working out for me.

 

[Mixed flock enthusiast]

How does one figure out what "excess protein" actually is? Physical signs/behaviours?

Given the diversity of replies herein there are some who use 20% over 16-17% protein feeds and, I suspect, some would argue with either choice. I guess that age, time of year, climate all factor into "a correct answer".

Yours is the 2nd(more?) post referencing caution about higher proteins so we can take it, at some point, as correct.

What is that point?

Hard to say exactly as it probably also depends on calcium, dehydration, and other factors. Here is one paper that details some of the experiments that have been used to formulate commercial feed:
https://scialert.net/fulltext/?doi=ajas.2016.165.174&org=11

and here is one where high protein (24.5%) PLUS high calcium, or high calcium plus normal protein (17.5%) resulted in renal toxicity. High protein normal calcium did elevate uric acid levels, so may not have been harmless over a long period of time:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/16359121/#fft

 

[Folly's place]

So the 20% Flock raiser, an all-flock diet, with separate oyster shell, is NOT involved in either of the studies mentioned above.
Talking about 'high' or 'low' protein is so non-specific!
Mary

 

[Apis mellifera]

Guessing here, but because the ingredients are listed by weight, and the fly larva aren't dried out first, that looks like a very small amount of 'animal protein' in that feed. Listed AFTER the Ca carbonate!
Mary

After 3 emails I finally got a reply from Purina on the amount of BSFL in the feed. I asked how much of the 16% protein was animal and how much was vegetable. I was told that it is "proprietary information" and yes there is more Ca carbonate than BSFL. So essentially what they do is toss a dead fly in the bag and call it good or maybe a fly landed on the bag. I have no problem paying extra for quality dog food and wouldn't for poultry feed. It would be nice if someone stepped up and made a quality chicken feed for those in colder climates that want to add animal protein feed.

 

[Cindy in PA]

After 3 emails I finally got a reply from Purina on the amount of BSFL in the feed. I asked how much of the 16% protein was animal and how much was vegetable. I was told that it is "proprietary information" and yes there is more Ca carbonate than BSFL. So essentially what they do is toss a dead fly in the bag and call it good or maybe a fly landed on the bag. I have no problem paying extra for quality dog food and wouldn't for poultry feed. It would be nice if someone stepped up and made a quality chicken feed for those in colder climates that want to add animal protein feed.

I think this is a a bit over the top. So there is more Ca than fly larvae, well I would think Ca weighs more. You didn't get an answer, so you are dissing the product. I have no idea how much fly larvae is in it. I do know that insect protein is the wave of the future, judging by studies that have been going on for several years. Using soy protein is not sustainable & neither is fish meal. I will give Purina credit for being the first that I know of to include insect protein & I look forward to the day when more feed companies do the same. I have heard Kalmbach is working on it & I'm sure others are too. I refuse to feed a 20% protein feed exclusively, when I know it is just more soy. Glad you took the time to ask Purina.

 

[Archie01]

J have 2 26+ Single Laced Wyandottes and 1 of the hens started laying last Sunday! only problem I don't know which one?

 

[Archie01]

J have 2 26+ Single Laced Wyandottes and 1 of the hens started laying last Sunday! only problem I don't know which one?

Just checked, the girls are actually 34 weeks today!

 

[Archie01]

but again, only getting 1 egg daily.