Euthanasia

[Eggstatic ChickyDoo]

FWIW- my understanding (I am NOT a medical professional) is that, in humans, the brain responds to a buildup of CO2 with attempts to breathe, gasping, etc. and it's that, not a lack of oxygen, that causes most of the uncomfortable sensations of not being able to breathe. This was as part of a safety training for liquid nitrogen, so many of the details don't translate, but if that holds true for other animals I don't see how a CO2 chamber could be humane for anything not already deeply sedated.
Personally, I use a firm grasp and a trusted ax-wielder.

 

[ryneaeiel]

FWIW- my understanding (I am NOT a medical professional) is that, in humans, the brain responds to a buildup of CO2 with attempts to breathe, gasping, etc. and it's that, not a lack of oxygen, that causes most of the uncomfortable sensations of not being able to breathe. This was as part of a safety training for liquid nitrogen, so many of the details don't translate, but if that holds true for other animals I don't see how a CO2 chamber could be humane for anything not already deeply sedated.
Personally, I use a firm grasp and a trusted ax-wielder.

It really isn't.

Even for euthanizing rats for feeding reptiles, stunning by smashing the head against a hard object or pithing the brain of the animal is preferable to CO2 if you're only euthanizing one animal.

 

[MadamContrary]

Ok so birds just don't have the K receptors available for opiates to be a viable sedative by oral method. It would have to be an injection to bypass the liver and only one form could subdue the respiratory system enough to cause death. Anyone who care to read the rest of the details I'll link below.

https://www.vetfolio.com/learn/article/analgesia-in-birds-part-2-opioids-and-locals

 

[Ascholten]

Ok so birds just don't have the K receptors available for opiates to be a viable sedative by oral method. It would have to be an injection to bypass the liver and only one form could subdue the respiratory system enough to cause death. Anyone who care to read the rest of the details I'll link below.

https://www.vetfolio.com/learn/article/analgesia-in-birds-part-2-opioids-and-locals

Very interesting read here. On that though, they were looking for 'sedation affects' on the birds, not the LD 50 so o say if I read it right, so the big dose, say one pill would actually be for the bird, may be enough to push enough of the xx and yy's to put the thing under. I can see where a pill is probably not best route now. Hangs out in the crop, how long until it gets to the stomach, even dissolved, does not seem it gets absorbed real fast then. so I guess the chicken is going to be stoned off it's ass, listening to bob marley before he finally crashes

Aaron

 

[Ascholten]

It really isn't.

Even for euthanizing rats for feeding reptiles, stunning by smashing the head against a hard object or pithing the brain of the animal is preferable to CO2 if you're only euthanizing one animal.

Although it wasn't my first choice, however a certified vet did say CO2 was very viable, but not in its pure form, it needed to be a mix of like 80 20 air or something, I still was wary because from my experiences CO2 is very pungent when breathed in large quantities, Id not want to use that method myself.

Something like nitrogen, seemed like a very painless way to go, you get light headed, a bit dizzy and in about 30 to 45 seconds you pass out, in a coma on the way to death. Plenty of people have died this way going into confined spaces, just ask NASA and it wasn't much of a struggle at all from them. Nitrous may be another. For those who were kids who may have experimented with whippets, you know first hand how painless and fast that will take you down.

Break you neck. Ok so unless the rest of the body is disconnected, unless you sever it completely, the heart is still beating somewhat etc and blood is still being supplied. Nothing below that break can report the pain to the brain. Im sure that at the point of the break pain is being reported very much so, just the poor bird can't cry out anymore because you paralyzed it. The brain has some oxygen it's still viable for a little bit, the eyes still see what happened, it knows what happened, but can't move or say a thing about it. So if we want to talk about painless here, lets be truthful. I think we say this is painless just to make ourselves feel better about it. Either way it has to be done, one way or another. Maybe one should just smash the entire head with a 50 lb cinder block one big splat, if the brain is totally destroyed, it can't feel pain, or process it even if it wanted to. That way you don't have to worry about the 'head up' feeling pain, and the slowly glazing eyes, their last look, is at the person they trusted, that just killed them, because that entire processing 'sub assembly' is now mush.

Unconscious eliminates .. cognizant acknowledgement of pain, the surgeon knocks you out AND paralyzes you so you can't feel or involuntarily move when pain hits, nor do you remember when you come to again.

Snapping Neck - just blocks path pain would take from that point down, also has the affect of shutting down ALL life support for the bird, but bird KNOWS what happened, may feel it but can't tell you so.

Im hungry, lets see what's in the freezer. CHopped Chicken Neck or White Trash Tramadol Nuggets, hmm, hard choices

Although there is some crassness in places, good conversation going on here, on a topic people really need to confront. Thank you to all who contributed so far.

Aaron

 

[MadamContrary]

Very interesting read here. On that though, they were looking for 'sedation affects' on the birds, not the LD 50 so o say if I read it right, so the big dose, say one pill would actually be for the bird, may be enough to push enough of the xx and yy's to put the thing under. I can see where a pill is probably not best route now. Hangs out in the crop, how long until it gets to the stomach, even dissolved, does not seem it gets absorbed real fast then. so I guess the chicken is going to be stoned off it's ass, listening to bob marley before he finally crashes

Aaron

Well depending on the drug there is a threshold cap of effectiveness, depending on the specific type of bird, and several form provided no sedation effect just pain control combined with an inhaled anesthetic. Even then there was mixed results in different studies. Let's just say they are still studying opiates specific effects on birds. For the purpose of euthanasia it'd be very hard to actually kill the bird with opiates, or even have access to the right drug in the first place. I good old pill won't do the trick unfortunately.

 

[Eggstatic ChickyDoo]

Something like nitrogen, seemed like a very painless way to go, you get light headed, a bit dizzy and in about 30 to 45 seconds you pass out, in a coma on the way to death.

Yeah, I didn't suggest it since I assume most people looking for a quick end for a bird without a vet wouldn't have the time/knowledge to make their own purified N or access to pre-purified.

{Discussion of decapitation and spinal severing} I think we say this is painless just to make ourselves feel better about it. Either way it has to be done, one way or another.

I agree and was focused more on limiting the time frame for that pain. Having seen an animal suffer far too long from what seemed like they should have been instantly fatal crush injuries to the head, I don't trust my own strength to be sufficient to inflict enough damage fast enough for that to be faster, but perhaps with some mechanical help...

Although there is some crassness in places, good conversation going on here, on a topic people really need to confront. Thank you to all who contributed so far.

Aaron

I agree. Unfortunately, things happen and birds need to be dispatched sometimes. We ought to do the deed as humanely as possible.
I appreciate everyone's help in figuring out the best approaches.

 

[Fluffy_Feathers]

Break you neck. Ok so unless the rest of the body is disconnected, unless you sever it completely, the heart is still beating somewhat etc and blood is still being supplied. Nothing below that break can report the pain to the brain. Im sure that at the point of the break pain is being reported very much so, just the poor bird can't cry out anymore because you paralyzed it. The brain has some oxygen it's still viable for a little bit, the eyes still see what happened, it knows what happened, but can't move or say a thing about it. So if we want to talk about painless here, lets be truthful. I think we say this is painless just to make ourselves feel better about it.

I think that if cervical dislocation is done right, the bird should be dead almost instantly and feel no pain, or if they do it's an extremely short amount of time. Cervical dislocation is different than simply breaking the neck. You are disconnecting the skull from the spine completely. The main blood vessels severe, as well as the spinal cord. There's no blood going to the brain or nerves, so I don't think there is much pain. That's my opinion anyway.

 

[Ascholten]

But that you actually broke, severed, and tore things apart. The blood vessels severing means no more blood to the brain, so it shuts down within a minute, if done right. The spinal cord means no pain from that break point and below. Also all that stuff shuts down as well. Head, eyes, all the stuff ON the head which are above the break, still feel pain, and work properly, for a short time at least.

There is pain but it's gone super fast as unconsciousness / coma / death set in. THAT is the qualifying factor there, removing the cognizance, consciousness to be able to Acknowledge, Feel, Sense and Process to know you are in pain. When you are in surgery, your body is in incredible pain, it will react, involuntarily of course, which is why they will also use other drugs to paralyze you so you are not twitching and jerking around every time they slice another opening into you or cut pieces of this and that out. Nerve blocks work too, but the point is, it's not so much the actual pain, but the bodies ability to know, and process that pain is happening. Which is why I brought up narcotics, which if a person already has a script for them, (Legally of course.. calm down people), knocking the bird out on a dose of Oxycodone, Morphine, etc, it's out, NOT able to process anything really, including pain, slips into a coma and dies painlessly, and simply. Nobody has to physically break it's neck, hope they broke it right, (as mentioned there are reasons where a person might physically not be able to do this as well, think outside the box folks !! ) have to feel the bones snap in their hands, bla bla,

Making the death fast, as non pain perceptive as possible, and well, simple to administer is the overall key. Let me mix a pill in her snacks, or an eyedropper with a few drops down her gullet type thing, then sit back and 20 minutes later, she peacefully went to sleep and died. This isn't about grow a set sissy and just wring the things neck already or you are a coward who don't deserve hens.

Let get a tiger to rip the guts out of your 2 year old daughter and tell you, well, YOU have to kill her to put her out of her misery now, there is nothing else we can do at this point. Would you REALLY want to hold her in your arms, snap her neck, or swing an axe at her, watch her convulse and twitch violently as the spine is severed, or if it was possible, instead, give her a pill, one last hug, and watch her goto sleep peacefully, and just never wake up again?

If you are a Viking, then answer A is probably the best, most others, would probably vie for the quieter method too.

Preferences.
AAron

 

[Brooks_]

Let get a tiger to rip the guts out of your 2 year old daughter and tell you, well, YOU have to kill her to put her out of her misery now, there is nothing else we can do at this point

Non point. Already bled out.