Fecal Float Questions

[Shadrach]

I'm not going to labour the point, I've tried before and it's one of those dogma v reality problems.
In order to be certain a chicken is not carrying worms one would need to worm every day or, immediately the effects of the last dose wears off.
You could worm four times a year. Your chickens could only be guaranteed to be worm free for the period of that treatment. Say the treatment lasted a week. Then for four weeks of the year your chickens will be worm free.
What about the other 48 weeks?

 

[Kusanar]

I'm not going to labour the point, I've tried before and it's one of those dogma v reality problems.
In order to be certain a chicken is not carrying worms one would need to worm every day or, immediately the effects of the last dose wears off.
You could worm four times a year. Your chickens could only be guaranteed to be worm free for the period of that treatment. Say the treatment lasted a week. Then for four weeks of the year your chickens will be worm free.
What about the other 48 weeks?

With horses there are 3 schools of thought:
1) float test and see what you find then treat or not depending on results
2) Do a rotational dewormer program where you treat every other month (I believe) and change chemicals each time to reduce chances of resistance plus some parasites are somewhat seasonal so you treat for those at certain times of the year only.
3) Daily dewormer which is a very small dose in an alfalfa pellet that is fed daily to keep the animal free of parasites. This still requires a 1 time a year treatment with a traditional dewormer as it does not treat all species. It also has to be fed very regularly due to the low dose, each time you miss a feeding you create a little bit of resistance in the parasite population.

Then you have the way I have my horses right now. They were all dewormed before I moved them, they are very lightly stocked (3 horses on 10 acres) on grass fields, and all are healthy and not having any issues associated with worms, the fields they are on have never to my knowledge had horses on them as the farm was until the last generation or so a dairy farm and after that it was beef cows and had been being used as a hay field for several years before I purchased it and then for a few years after I purchased it before I moved the horses. Due to all of these reasons I don't feel like it is likely that my horses have a heavy enough load to worry about. I may give them a dose going into the fall to make sure they aren't carying a worm load while I am feeding them hay and wasting money, but right now they are eating grass exclusively, shiny coats, bright eyes, staying a good weight so I'm not too worried about them.

 

[Folly's place]

We've had issues with bots here, as in bot fly eggs on their legs, so do worm in fall, at least, and sometimes more often. Folks about a mile away, upwind, have a 'horse dealer' situation, not good, and I suspect that's where the flies are traveling from.
Mary

 

[jolenesdad]

Also, in natural environments, few wild critters live in confined spaces, as our livestock does.

Thank you, Mary! This point is so often overlooked. Even in horses or chickens or any animal that is kept “naturally” if there’s a fence ANYWHERE we have altered the course of natural. If the animal can’t pick up and move on when environmental pressures increase on them, we may have to step in with management.

 

[Kusanar]

We've had issues with bots here, as in bot fly eggs on their legs, so do worm in fall, at least, and sometimes more often. Folks about a mile away, upwind, have a 'horse dealer' situation, not good, and I suspect that's where the flies are traveling from.
Mary

I've been lucky so far at this place, very few bots if any. I'm used to having legs coated in yellow, but not here.

 

[Folly's place]

As I understand it, @Shadrach 's birds have access to large spaces too.
Selecting for health also means a willingness to cull individuals who do poorly, for whatever reason, so the group as a whole does better in their environment. This approach works, as long as there's this management plan in place.
Mary

 

[KsKingBee]

For the record, I DO post the link for here, on a few of my FB groups.

I have as well, and BYC comes up in discussions, especially the Stickies Topics in the Peafowl section.

 

[KsKingBee]

Would that be for every type of worm, or was this advice specific to say round worms?
I would have to consult someone here, but I recall being told that Gapeworm certainly needs dealing with if present; it doesn't matter what the count is.

For the record, being one of the largest peafowl farms in the US my focus is mainly on peafowl. The main parasites we have to deal with are cocci, cecal worms, and roundworms, with occasional tapeworm. Gape and capillary worms have not been found here. So, when my vet tells me that a bird will always have a small cocci load until it is stressed I allow them to maintain that small load until it gets to the point it needs to be addressed.

Peachicks are very susceptible to cocci so they are insulated in wire bottom brooders for the first three months and are intensely monitored with fecal exams for the first few months on the ground until their systems regulate for the light cocci load.

The worms I mentioned are much the same way except with the number of birds we have to deal with it is much easier to do a blanket deworming prior to the breeding season and before the onset of winter.

 

[Sue Gremlin]

With horses there are 3 schools of thought:
1) float test and see what you find then treat or not depending on results
2) Do a rotational dewormer program where you treat every other month (I believe) and change chemicals each time to reduce chances of resistance plus some parasites are somewhat seasonal so you treat for those at certain times of the year only.
3) Daily dewormer which is a very small dose in an alfalfa pellet that is fed daily to keep the animal free of parasites. This still requires a 1 time a year treatment with a traditional dewormer as it does not treat all species. It also has to be fed very regularly due to the low dose, each time you miss a feeding you create a little bit of resistance in the parasite population.

Then you have the way I have my horses right now. They were all dewormed before I moved them, they are very lightly stocked (3 horses on 10 acres) on grass fields, and all are healthy and not having any issues associated with worms, the fields they are on have never to my knowledge had horses on them as the farm was until the last generation or so a dairy farm and after that it was beef cows and had been being used as a hay field for several years before I purchased it and then for a few years after I purchased it before I moved the horses. Due to all of these reasons I don't feel like it is likely that my horses have a heavy enough load to worry about. I may give them a dose going into the fall to make sure they aren't carying a worm load while I am feeding them hay and wasting money, but right now they are eating grass exclusively, shiny coats, bright eyes, staying a good weight so I'm not too worried about them.

The current equine guidelines indicate float tests and treating only those with >200 EPG. https://aaep.org/sites/default/files/Guidelines/AAEPParasiteControlGuidelines_0.pdf

 

[Sue Gremlin]

I'm not going to labour the point, I've tried before and it's one of those dogma v reality problems.
In order to be certain a chicken is not carrying worms one would need to worm every day or, immediately the effects of the last dose wears off.
You could worm four times a year. Your chickens could only be guaranteed to be worm free for the period of that treatment. Say the treatment lasted a week. Then for four weeks of the year your chickens will be worm free.
What about the other 48 weeks?

And are worms always bad? Is there any benefit to removing them if they're present? The answer changes based on so many things, including what kind of worms they are, what the chickens are used for, etc etc.

There ARE some that I'd treat for automatically. Gapeworms and threadworms, for example. Present in any numbers, and I'm treating for them. If I am raising stock, you better believe I'm treating with a coccidiostat starter, and if I had clinical coccidiosis, not treating them could mean my whole flock is wiped out.

The rest, it just depends. If they are otherwise debilitated and have worms, I'll treat them. If they're healthy and have worms, I don't. If they have overwhelming fecal eggs, I'll probably treat them, depending what they are.

Worms are icky. That's true. We don't tolerate them in our dogs and cats or ourselves. Treating livestock routinely without evidence of a problem definitely contributes to resistance to anthelmintics.

Actually, in dogs, there's currently a crisis with resistance to dewormers. Drug-resistant hookworms are going to be problematic in pet dogs in the coming years, and that's not great news. This has emerged because of high-pressure deworming in Greyhound breeding facilities in Florida. Bad practice has led to a coming crisis.