Feed Questions

Discussion in 'Feeding & Watering Your Flock' started by Sherol, Nov 10, 2015.

  1. Sherol

    Sherol Chillin' With My Peeps

    98
    10
    76
    Apr 7, 2015
    San Antonio Tx
    I have been reading over the threads on feed and have some questions. My last bag of feed was Nutrena and I ferment that feed. The chickens got half of their daily ration that was fermented over night and then dry added in an equal amount to make a mash. Never had issue with waste.. all was cleaned up. TS was out when I needed feed and I got the Dumore brand. It is "dirty" for lack of a better word. I feed crumbles and the Dumore is more a greyish color ad there is always little dark bits that float in the fermenting water. They also seem to need more [twice as much] of this feed than the other. I am not interested in Purina. I checked the Nutrena site and they do use GMO grains. I have some local feed companies that make their own, but concern is local farmers growing GMO type grains that would be used in the local feeds.

    TS has organic but it is a bit more expensive. I see corn as first ingredients usually and soy also included and my understanding that in todays world most corn and soy are GMO. I do not think organic means no-GMO but in the ways the crops are grown. And GMO type grains allow them to grow and thrive in the organic conditions. And with abundance of GMO corn available is it safe to assume that deer corn and birdseed/squirrel corn these days is also GMO and now being fed to wildlife. Would love some clarification here..

    Also.. if you are feeding a feed.. Nutrena and the rest.. that uses GMO grains... does that get passed on into the eggs, and offspring? Would assume might not want to eat birds fed a GMO feed. I am not interested in mixing my own feed and concern is any grains available would have some that are GMO and so defeat the purpose. Is it possible to mix a commercial feed with something else to offset some of the negative with the GMO grains? I do feed sprouted BOSS and also some oats that are fermented but feel the need a well balanced base.

    I have 17 birds that 4 ended up being roosters. Will probably do something with two of the roos in time. We are about 12 weeks old now and my plan was to feed a basic flock feed and supplement with oyster. What protein percentage am I aiming for with a flock feed? What age should I make the oyster available?

    I purchase beef suet to make feeder blocks for my wild birds. Can this rendered suet be used to feed chickens? I am in Texas so it would be a cold day treat. Not really wanting to do corn.
     
  2. Folly's place

    Folly's place Overrun With Chickens

    7,288
    1,598
    356
    Sep 13, 2011
    southern Michigan
    Certified organic feed is non-GMO by definition. Dumor is made by Purina as their price brand. I'm happy feeding Purina Flock Raiser, because, while I do buy organic veggies and fruits as available, I'm not a totally organic food eater anyway. If you want organically fed birds, then that's all you can feed, and it will be way more expensive than non-organic feed. If you mix the feeds, your birds are no longer being fed organic. The same is true of you feed organic and then add non-organic treats and scraps. Chicken eggs and meat are not infested with grain proteins; the bird converts the feed into chicken and chicken egg proteins, at the amino acid level. Biochemistry! Mary
     
  3. shortgrass

    shortgrass Overrun With Chickens

    3,205
    566
    261
    Mar 14, 2015
    Northern Colorado
    Exactly what Follys Place says... If you want organic, you have to stay organic. But GMO can indeed be organic. The main problem with GMOs is in nutrient value. GMOs have less nutritional value at the cost of producing more grain, in the ag business anyway... Organic grains just have more of thise important protein bonds, without splicing genes from other organisms and into it.

    GMO CAN have higher gluten content too, so people with gluten sensitivity can be affected by the eggs from her ns on a high GMO wheat diet.

    I don't use commercial feed. I use grains grown in my area, organic. I can trust my own soil lol, but I don't feel comfortable with bagged feed; there's too much "flotsam" added to it; the stuff that flots to the top of the fermented feed should be seeds, not weird flecks of added vitamins lol.. I'm just picky I guess ;)
     
    Last edited: Nov 11, 2015
  4. Cindy in PA

    Cindy in PA Overrun With Chickens

    2,050
    185
    271
    Jul 8, 2008
    Fleetwood, PA
    GMO are not legally allowed in certified organic feed. Don't know where this stuff comes from. Maybe the OP wants to feed as much non gmo & organic as possible to keep away from pesticides etc. They only have to do all organic if they want to sell as organic.
     
  5. Free Spirit

    Free Spirit The Chiarian

    637
    101
    108
    Oct 21, 2015
    NWA
    Technically GMO's are not allowed in Certified Organic but like mentioned above there are loopholes. The following are a few articles about GMO's and organic labeling. You can't always trust the labels.

    http://onf.coop/wp-content/uploads/2010/11/GMO.pdf

    http://www.organic.org/articles/showarticle/article-201

    http://blogs.usda.gov/2014/05/16/organic-101-understanding-the-made-with-organic-label/

    Love this last one as it mentions the tiny loopholes in which you find GMO's in Certified Organic.
    http://gmo-awareness.com/2011/05/05/is-organic-always-gmo-free/
     
    2 people like this.
  6. shortgrass

    shortgrass Overrun With Chickens

    3,205
    566
    261
    Mar 14, 2015
    Northern Colorado

    GMO CAN in fact be organic, in fact, you're probably going to be mad, but until you understand the whole picture, it seems backwards.


    First here's a couple if different articles to the explain why it's so confusing...

    First, the problem with attempting to grow "organic" alfalfa vs "GM"

    http://www.non-gmoreport.com/articles/feb10/usda_gm_alfalfa_threatens_organic_industry.php

    Then, marketing...

    http://www.npr.org/sections/thesalt/2014/02/28/283460420/why-the-non-gmo-label-is-organic-s-frenemy

    And hence, the confusion...
    http://wondergressive.com/organic-not-non-gmo/

    Our alfalfa is GM seed, produced organically. Sold to organic dairies for organic milk. There's about no way to get and keep organic alfalfa seed from being contaminated due to cross pollination from beneficials.

    GM seed, organic produced.

    It's a gray area nightmare ;)
     
    Last edited: Nov 13, 2015
  7. Cindy in PA

    Cindy in PA Overrun With Chickens

    2,050
    185
    271
    Jul 8, 2008
    Fleetwood, PA
    I am always amazed to what lengths people go to bash organic. Any organic worth it's salt is NON GMO. You are picking at the sidelines. It is important to check out your sources, as the government has screwed up organic in many ways, but USDA organic does not allow GMOs. Do not buy from the likes of Cargill & the other ag companies that hopped on the bandwagon for the money. If a person doesn't want to buy organic fine, but stop throwing out half truths to try & persuade others!
     
  8. shortgrass

    shortgrass Overrun With Chickens

    3,205
    566
    261
    Mar 14, 2015
    Northern Colorado
    @Cindy in PA, I'm not bashing lol; I'm educating. ;)

    I grow organic crops and produce organic beef and chicken/eggs. CERTIFIED crops...

    I also grow organic produced crops, GM seed produced organically.

    My entire life is devoted to educating and helping others embrace organic methods in big AG, so I really really do hope that you didn't intend my post as anything more than clarifying something for you that sadly, A LOT of people don't truly understand the entire process of.

    With what can I help clarify? I definitely don't want to come across as bashing my own business ;)
     
    Last edited: Nov 13, 2015
    1 person likes this.
  9. Sherol

    Sherol Chillin' With My Peeps

    98
    10
    76
    Apr 7, 2015
    San Antonio Tx
    My understanding was gmo seeds could be grown organically so paying extra for a bag that states organic that probably contains what I'm trying to avoid is not worth it. I think we are getting to where we cannot avoid consuming them. My guess is I need to provide other things besides feed to reduce their consumption of gmo grains.

    @shortgrass... is any large scale farming done using non gmo seed these days? I have heard if you grow something..[say corn next to the the gmo corn you get in trouble for the pollen from the gmo corn that hits your corn. I have heard lots of frustration from some trying to not grow the gmo stuff
     
    Last edited: Nov 14, 2015
  10. Sherol

    Sherol Chillin' With My Peeps

    98
    10
    76
    Apr 7, 2015
    San Antonio Tx
    Any feedback on the use of beef suet with chickens??
     

BackYard Chickens is proudly sponsored by