FERMENTED FEEDS...anyone using them?

[rf12345]

Searched for boos and mold in the thread, did not find the answer, so maybe just a wrong search criteria.
Couple of batched of fermented grains got mold on top (not east, green mold) side by side, so must be something not quite right. It happens because boss (black oil sunflower seed) stays on top. string did not help, it developed mold. Is there a way to deal with that?
Sanitized bucket, soaked feed. When I add splash of acv and but of honey mold does not happen. Folk say that they are fine just with water.
I have highly scientific 2 bucket one in another from a bakery, cleaned and washed, one with holes, one without, 1/4 of grain, poor water on top till it covers, then soak then add more water next morning give or take so there is still a bit of water above the grain, boss floats, does not sink all the way down, lid is not closed tight, just put there so dog, kid and other "elements" do not end up in the bucket. So it is highly scientific
Mix of grain is milo, oats, barley, boss.all grain are fine, some will float, but boss does it the most.
Any recommendations to deal with mold on boss in the grain mixture? I do not ferment layer feed, trying to figure out whole grains to see if it can be possible to ferment whole grain feed (basically it would have kelp, peas, beans in addition to it, possibly have to up it with soy meal). I'm trying to sort the system out on a bit cheaper ingredients my home made scratch is made off. I'll be upping protein targeting about 21% in the final feed (tested formula is appreciated, I do not fee corn whole or cracked, milo in my feed has that role)

Question to folk who ferment whole grains, do you rinse your grains or ferment as is? I wonder if I'm getting mold from not rinsing (it is in environment after all), so maybe rinsing before soaking could help to wash out enough stuff so the good stuff during fermenting would go fast enough to suppress the moldy business.

Does temperature matter? My highly scientific method is bucket in the basement (aka out of the main pathways )

thanks

 

[lazy gardener]

Try making your FF thicker, so the grains which naturally want to float to the top can be stirred into the matrix, and stay well mixed with the feed during the ferment process. I make mine thick enough so that my stirring spoon will stand up in the mix. No need to do the double bucket draining system. I simply rotate buckets, so when I empty one bucket, the second one is ready to go. I have found that when I use whole grains, it speeds the ferment, most likely b/c the grains are dusty, and have a higher population of bacteria and yeast on them.

 

[Molpet]

most of us gave up on the 2 bucket method and use this methoad https://tikktok.wordpress.com/2014/04/13/fermented-feed-faq/

I add boss to the milled feed and haven't seen any green mold, just white yeast.
I have it in the basement also. After the first bucket is fed mostly out, the next bucket ferments 1 or 2 days in warm weather and 2 or 4 in cold temps. I have several buckets going since I feed 1 1/2 gal a day
How long are you fermenting it?
I sprinkle hot pepper on top and the dog leaves it alone

 

[EggSighted4Life]

@rf12345 sounds scary.... @lazy gardener suggestion sounded like it could work. I only use (well) water and feed to ferment and never had mold in my feed. But if I use acv in my chicken (well) water, grows mold within 2 days. I keep it thick and stir once a day when I feed out including the second batch. Have 2, 18 gallon totes. Each one will hold 50# of feed and gets fed out in about 5 days while the other is fermenting with about one day worth of back slop to get it started.

You could sprout your whole grains before fermenting for added nutrient values. Which leads me to a question.... are your whole grains sprouting inside your ferment as I have read they will?

Why avoid corn and then possibly add soy meal (the king of all GMO)? And why not use whole soy beans if the whole grain thing is important to you?

I would try to remember though, I don't think the nutritional value in commercial feed comes just from the grains though.... I think they add vitamins and minerals to reach the target value. How will you ensure those aspects of your feed?

And your boss may be throwing it off.... but I just don't see how an inch or two of water would stop something from molding... That water still has the stuff from the feed in it, ever leave a glass of tea sitting around or a bowl of soup? It will mold pretty fast even though there is "water" covering it.

Thanks for sharing!

 

[rf12345]

Just did some reading in that post, very interesting.
After 2 days I got mold on boss. 2 buckets I use because my neighbor does and never got any mold, same boss source I think. 2 buckets I can do because I can drain the liquid, dump it my by feeding bowl on site and tada. When drained it also freezes less when we have it cold, I do not have heating in my coop not I can be on site to feed 3-4 times a day and such, so they do have feed bucket with the dry stuff, for "everyone will get some" reasons, some of this year hens decided to molt at -10F and colder outside, they are not happy and hiding at times and trying to stay out the best they can, insulated coop helps, I do not have in there heat lamp or things of that nature, not large enough to make heat box area, but maybe will figure out something at some point if I see any idea for medium 5x8 type of places.
I can try not to add water second day when it's done soaking.
I'm testing something... because I make sourdough I figured why not, here is my wild east already caught, added that liquid and a bit of starter , tiny bit of flower and will see if that will be enough to restart my batch to where it supposed to be because I basically just need the brew go well once then I can just restart it same way I do with my sourdough (one jar method being renewed and fed, fermenting grains would work basically the same way my guess would be).

What kind of troubles people have with 2 buckets? I see lots of videos about it, hey there are a lot of videos depending on the search criteria one can find a lot about many things and many ways of doing stuff.
What do I search for in videos to learn about other methods more. It's a vocabulary question, my fermenting chicken feed is not much... know it more for humans to be honest. However I do not ferment whole beans etc, so... Just need to learn more.

 

[rf12345]

@rf12345 sounds scary....
...
You could sprout your whole grains before fermenting for added nutrient values. Which leads me to a question.... are your whole grains sprouting inside your ferment as I have read they will?

Why avoid corn and then possibly add soy meal (the king of all GMO)? And why not use whole soy beans if the whole grain thing is important to you?

How will you ensure those aspects of your feed?

And your boss may be throwing it off.... but I just don't see how an inch or two of water would stop something from molding... That water still has the stuff from the feed in it, ever leave a glass of tea sitting around or a bowl of soup? It will mold pretty fast even though there is "water" covering it.

Thanks for sharing!

try to answer:
> You could sprout your whole grains before fermenting for added nutrient values. Which leads me to a question.... are your whole grains sprouting inside your ferment as I have read they will?
no, if I want to sprout I do it differently

>Why avoid corn and then possibly add soy meal (the king of all GMO)? And why not use whole soy beans if the whole grain thing is important to you?
milo is not gmo, and I already have some organic not gmo soy meal, why not use what I have already if I can. Was on sale once, got me a bit to try it. For times of molting and such if I do not have carp roasted for them to eat or something of that sort.

>How will you ensure those aspects of your feed?
There is local vendor of whole grain feed, I figured I'll try on simple thing I have already to learn the method. Then go from there.with whole grain feed or regular feed at try that one thing at a time.

> And your boss may be throwing it off....
That is possible, I like what boss has and bird like it as well, I did not want to set up separate sprouting system just for boos and was looking for all in one bucket kind of a method especially if my neighbor just does it and it works, same kind of buckets, I figured why not try and see, they save a lot on feed too. That's another reason to try it.
Something like that.

 

[rf12345]

Also birds free range now when we a re around, they used to daily all day, but we got predator attack somewhat recently and some injuries (wounds and such... it is what it is...) and then several hens went into molt right after that, so injured ones and molting ones are more vulnerable, and the fox has being coming regularly, it's a bold one, we are playing it safe now. So the birds get to all kind of bugs, mice and what else when we are around doing things and when we are not they are called into secure pen, there is a lot of mulched area and bug life and compost and such, you get the idea, they find what they need and there is some coming winter greens and I was thinking to try fodder if I have them penned due to that darn predator, before I had my pasture just to take care of that.And I can have them clean the gardens again , winter crop is covered .

 

[lazy gardener]

@rf12345 sounds scary.... @lazy gardener suggestion sounded like it could work. I only use (well) water and feed to ferment and never had mold in my feed. But if I use acv in my chicken (well) water, grows mold within 2 days. I keep it thick and stir once a day when I feed out including the second batch. Have 2, 18 gallon totes. Each one will hold 50# of feed and gets fed out in about 5 days while the other is fermenting with about one day worth of back slop to get it started.

You could sprout your whole grains before fermenting for added nutrient values. Which leads me to a question.... are your whole grains sprouting inside your ferment as I have read they will?

Why avoid corn and then possibly add soy meal (the king of all GMO)? And why not use whole soy beans if the whole grain thing is important to you?

I would try to remember though, I don't think the nutritional value in commercial feed comes just from the grains though.... I think they add vitamins and minerals to reach the target value. How will you ensure those aspects of your feed?

And your boss may be throwing it off.... but I just don't see how an inch or two of water would stop something from molding... That water still has the stuff from the feed in it, ever leave a glass of tea sitting around or a bowl of soup? It will mold pretty fast even though there is "water" covering it.

Thanks for sharing!

With ACV in the water, are you seeing MOLD, or are you seeing black or beard or hair algae? Some algae looks like mold, if you are not familiar with the many types of algae.

 

[rf12345]

no mold with acv. it is not algie. just normal mold that would form on stale dough, typical green one.

 

[TexasLisa]

I use ACV in my waterer. I use well water (with sulphur). Within 2-3 days I also get a light green covering on the inside of the waterer. It doesn't seem to bother the flock, but I do have to clean the waterer out more. The algae reminds me when I would walk in the creek and you would slip on the rocks covered in the green algae.