FERMENTED FEEDS...anyone using them?

[igorsMistress]

Can I ask why you feel the need to weigh your feed?

When I measure it's all by weight rather than volume, using a digital kitchen scale.

I'm weighing because I only make a couple days at a time. My chickens won't eat ff if I let it ferment longer, I've tried. They ate dry emergency feed instead. It's also what I can fit in my crock without overflow, but it's close.

PS I was also figuring out my cost per dozen eggs. It's simple though, takes no more time, the crock is just sitting on a scale not the counter as I dump in feed and water.

 

[Ebarnes-21]

Ok so I'm trying fermented feed for the first time. I'm not really sure what I'm doing is working or not.

I use whole maize and wheat, which is what I feed normally, I put the amount for a day in a bucket with enough water to barely get them all in liquid.

The water I had used to wash out a live yoghurt container and looked pretty milky.

I left it to soak for 4 or 5 days, stirring every day ... It absorbed most of the liquid.

The wheat sprouted just a little, small white points.

The smell is nice ... a little different to how it started out ... I wouldn't say it was beery or anything ... actually it smells just like the tanning paste I make for sheepskins out of bark tea and flour ... like the day after use, when I scrape it back of the hide and replace it with new. Thats funny, but its a smell I like anyway.

My cat also likes it ... I had to fight her off the chookfood Lol.

I just used a little of it today, I fed them 3/4 normal, 1/4 new fermented feed. They were happy with both ... I think they liked the fermented best, but maybe just because it was soaked.

I replaced what I used with more dry grain and water.

Not sure if I'm using enough water, I can't really reach a peanut butter consistency with whole grains!

Not sure if there is any fermentation or not either ... there are no bubbles, and only the mildest of smells that could be just well soaked grain.

Not sure if sprouting is good or not!

Any hints? Is what I'm doing fermented feed or some weird thing unique to me?

 

[Molpet]

I think I'm calling quits on my first round of fermented feed. I made way too much because it swelled up to at least 3 times the volume of dry feed filling a 5 gallon bucket to the very top. The side of the bucket now has mold growing on the sides :-(. I think I'm going to bleach everything and then start again hopefully in a smaller bucket. The chickens loved it for about the first 4 days, but then their appetite for it dropped dramatically.

How much in your experience would you make for approximately 20 chickens? While I love the weighing idea, I don't think that is practical given my numbers and vastly different sized breeds and ages.

if its white its not mold but the mother.. that is good
https://tikktok.wordpress.com/2014/04/13/fermented-feed-faq/

 

[Molpet]

whole grains would take a lot longer than the milled grains I use.
https://tikktok.wordpress.com/2014/04/13/fermented-feed-faq/

 

[lazy gardener]

I want to make sure I am not underfeeding them.

It just seems to me that you are doing way more work than you need to do. Simply mix up a bucket (or container) of FF. You can estimate how much they will eat in a day or two, aim for 2 days worth, if you have a small flock. Then, feed them. If they eat it all up, feed them some more. If they seem hungry towards the end of the day, and their crops are pretty empty, give them a bit more. Eventually you will get to the point where you know how much they will eat in a day. When your bucket is almost empty, renew it. If you feed out a whole bucket in a day, add a second bucket, and alternate buckets so you always have a fermented bucket to go. Once you've been fermenting for a while, simply replenishing your bucket at the end of the day, using warm water will have that bucket ready to feed out the following morning.

I have never weighed my feed. I let the birds tell me how much they need to eat.

 

[orchardflock]

I like the idea of this, but so far the challenge has been that they eat different amounts depending on how long it has been fermenting. But I haven't been doing this very long yet. I think the key is going to be to have at least two smaller buckets going at a time. I have a suspicion it will be changing a lot over the coming months anyway because I have 15 4 month olds about to start laying and 6 2 month olds, plus 5 molting 1 year olds.

 

[EggSighted4Life]

Ok so I'm trying fermented feed for the first time. I'm not really sure what I'm doing is working or not.

I use whole maize and wheat, which is what I feed normally, I put the amount for a day in a bucket with enough water to barely get them all in liquid.

The water I had used to wash out a live yoghurt container and looked pretty milky.

I left it to soak for 4 or 5 days, stirring every day ... It absorbed most of the liquid.

The wheat sprouted just a little, small white points.

The smell is nice ... a little different to how it started out ... I wouldn't say it was beery or anything ... actually it smells just like the tanning paste I make for sheepskins out of bark tea and flour ... like the day after use, when I scrape it back of the hide and replace it with new. Thats funny, but its a smell I like anyway.

My cat also likes it ... I had to fight her off the chookfood Lol.

I just used a little of it today, I fed them 3/4 normal, 1/4 new fermented feed. They were happy with both ... I think they liked the fermented best, but maybe just because it was soaked.

I replaced what I used with more dry grain and water.

Not sure if I'm using enough water, I can't really reach a peanut butter consistency with whole grains!

Not sure if there is any fermentation or not either ... there are no bubbles, and only the mildest of smells that could be just well soaked grain.

Not sure if sprouting is good or not!

Any hints? Is what I'm doing fermented feed or some weird thing unique to me?

Yes, it will take longer for whole grains to ferment, and your temperature will increase or decrease that time.

My real concern is... if you are ONLY feeding corn and wheat, then your chooks are likely malnourished. They are not that high in protein, around 8 and 14%. If fed at 50/50 then your protein is in the 11% range which is prime for all kinds of behavioral issues like feather picking and eating, decreased laying, and wasting chickens. Not less than 16% protein for light bodied layers like leghorn. And 18% protein is recommended for heavier breeds like Barred Rock or Cochin. I promise if you are feeding that because it's cheap it won't save you in the long run. The whole grains are seriously lacking in some of the vitamins, minerals, and amino acids that are included in a whole ration. Nope, I don't work for the feed companies.

Sprouting is awesome!!! And I had read that things would sprout in the FF but haven't tried it yet. That's like a double bonus!

It might just be hard to see your bubbles. I find that especially true if the mix is thick. But your whole grains might just be disguising it somehow. Different feeds do have different smells when fermenting. Sounds like you are off to a good start to me!

 

[EggSighted4Life]

I like the idea of this, but so far the challenge has been that they eat different amounts depending on how long it has been fermenting. But I haven't been doing this very long yet. I think the key is going to be to have at least two smaller buckets going at a time. I have a suspicion it will be changing a lot over the coming months anyway because I have 15 4 month olds about to start laying and 6 2 month olds, plus 5 molting 1 year olds.

The amount they eat varies widely from day to day depending on the weather sometimes. Rainy days equals more feed because they spend less time on pasture foraging. My flock size is ever changing as well. I usually ferment a whole 50# bag at a time. I feed out enough that it lasts ALL DAY regardless of the weather. And I put my feeders up at night to avoid unwanted guests. The next day, the same amount goes in my feed gutter.

I agree, my birds do NOT enjoy feed that has been fermented for too long. It even gets watery. So I simply add more water and feed so that it's less strong, on the occasions that does happen. Different feeds will swell different amount. If you don't switch feeds often then you will become familiar. Moving to a cooler location will slow the ferment. So you might even have to adjust seasonally and ferment less in the summer and more in the winter... that's what I do. There does seem to be a sweet spot for me around 4 days!

Lets NOT even talk about how much the ducks are changing my feed bill!

I actually have grown REAL mold... but it smelled JUST like mold. The white stuff that looks a little fuzzy sometimes is the SCOBY, symbiotic cultures of yeast and bacteria. If your stir everyday, it shouldn't become a problem and is a great sign that your ferment is working.

 

[tigger19687]

My main reason for weighing right now is to see how much water to use per dry feed. I also have not been doing it long enough to know how much of a scoop of dry to water will work well.
I can't tell when their crop is full because they will not let me touch them and it is hard to see some times.
I feed them in AM and then about an hour later we go out in the front yard for an hour or so, then back to the back yard where they can range as well but I don't have to watch them.

I am not ready to make a bigger batch yet till I get amounts right. Wouldn't want to have to throw out Organic FF because it got TOO FF'd

 

[Ebarnes-21]

Yes, it will take longer for whole grains to ferment, and your temperature will increase or decrease that time.

My real concern is... if you are ONLY feeding corn and wheat, then your chooks are likely malnourished. They are not that high in protein, around 8 and 14%. If fed at 50/50 then your protein is in the 11% range which is prime for all kinds of behavioral issues like feather picking and eating, decreased laying, and wasting chickens. Not less than 16% protein for light bodied layers like leghorn. And 18% protein is recommended for heavier breeds like Barred Rock or Cochin. I promise if you are feeding that because it's cheap it won't save you in the long run. The whole grains are seriously lacking in some of the vitamins, minerals, and amino acids that are included in a whole ration. Nope, I don't work for the feed companies.

Sprouting is awesome!!! And I had read that things would sprout in the FF but haven't tried it yet. That's like a double bonus!

It might just be hard to see your bubbles. I find that especially true if the mix is thick. But your whole grains might just be disguising it somehow. Different feeds do have different smells when fermenting. Sounds like you are off to a good start to me!

Its OK I'm not feeding 'ONLY' corn and wheat ... thats just the bought grain side which I'm fermenting ... for the protein and other nutrients I give them cooked, minced meat scraps/offal from my home grown sheep. Liver/lung etc ... that is over 40% protein.

I just don't think meat would be great fermented!

I also give them some root crops as extra to pick at, like giant radish, turnip, fodder beets, but not until after they've had all their real feed. The nutritional profile of the roots (by dry matter) is similar to corn, but they're mostly water still, so I don't overdo those. I might try fermenting them too though!

My mix once fed is:
2 parts wheat
1 part corn
1 part offal meats

(all by volume, as the meat isn't dry, obviously weight wouldn't be appropriate)

Total protein works out at 19%.

Then I also give my kitchen scraps (including crushed shell), and a few chunked roots to pick at afterwards.

Do you think that's OK? Constructive criticism always welcome!

My breed is Buff Sussex, heavy breed.

I've noticed that they seem to prefer the ration with meats than the commercial mix, they eat a little less overall and are better satisfied with that ... often the response to the evening feed is "good grief you want us to eat MORE???"

I fed half/half dry grain and fermented grain this morning ... decided they love it ... so far so good. Smells nice to me. Its probably only half done though from the sound of it, whole grain and its winter ... temperature is about 12C out there.

Read a page on lacto-fermenting that said the feed should be covered with water, to actually stop the air getting at it ... everyone I've seen seems to be keeping it quite dryish and stirring to keep it aerated ... ?? I know any fermentation is good, but which is best?