FERMENTED FEEDS...anyone using them?

[Ebarnes-21]

Oddly enough... New Zealand is the ONE place I'm interested in visiting!

Well this morning in warm sunny NZ we have a frost. The house is at 4C, and I have crystals on top of my fence posts. I'm glad I live in Northern New Zealand ... the Ski fields down south must be lovely today. They can keep them ... this is me, just add layers of woolen hats! I took a photo to show you our winter ... and bear in mind this is as cold as it gets here. Evergreen trees, patches of sun, slightly frozen dew.

NZ is a fairly decent sample of the planet actually, if you visit just one place it's probably the best variety sample! ... we have everything from glaciers and hot geysers through to tropical rainforests ... even the odd desert.

One of my chickens, who always lays at 2:30pm on the dot, is tucked up in the nest box at 9:00am insisting she's staying there in the warm. I said "Look, food" she said "You're mad, go back to bed, I did" ... eventually she did come out to eat but she didn't appreciate it.

 

[Ebarnes-21]

I live in the PNW on the coast, where our car seats will grow mold out of thin air if you don't sit on them often enough to disperse the spores! Our pictures hanging on the wall will grow mold behind them. Basically, anything can and will grow mold without any added moisture. It's true that I have to keep the sides of my buckets stirred down or cleaned or they may grow mold. But NEVER had to throw out the FF.

Water on the top is just plain BS to me. Yes, I'm a NEED to know WHY person as well!!! Thing is whatever lands on top of the water is going to seep down into the ferment as well. And then that water gets stirred into the ferment anyways. And what, the water on top is somehow magically NOT fermented? Plus that's how we get our colonies going from whatever is in the air. IF you DON'T stir your ferment, I can see this working to keep the mold out for a couple of days. BUT once your ferment runs out of sugars or whatever the good bacteria are feeding on, you WILL get mold colonies EVEN on top of the water layer! Yes I have done this, but ONLY when I didn't feed my ferment.

4-5 days seems to be a good feed out schedule for me, my birds, AND the ferment. And YES, the feed the ferment a little on a continual basis makes sense to me! But as LG said, we NEED to do what works for US.

@Ebarnes-21 Sounds like you have a pretty good understanding and awareness of the nutritional needs for your birds! I had to ask, because I cannot believe how many people I've met here on BYC that feed JUST scratch... because that's what so and so told them to do. Agreed, I wouldn't add the meat to the FF. I do well if I know the WHY of something. It's not about being argumentative, but maybe just not blindly following status quo just because someone said so. I simply don't trust people. And I'm ALWAYS seeking the truth. I too welcome CONSTRUCTIVE criticism. And my hope is always to be helpful and not judgmental or finger pointing. I just want the best for people and their pets. I don't agree with everything in the tik tok article, but it's a great source of good basic info for keeping it simple. I always read comments to see what I might learn from people's experiences. But I also have to discern what is true verses hear say. So I take all the info, use what makes sense and forget the rest. Though I do keep the rest in mind, because I'm open to learning something new. And as my understanding grows, I switch it up if I need to. It's really cool when something clicks suddenly!
Oddly enough... New Zealand is the ONE place I'm interested in visiting!

Ouch that's a mould issue alright ... I mean I've had a leather coat untouched for 3 years go a bit spotty in the wardrobe but that's something else! I thought NZ was supposed to be humid too ...

It certainly won't prevent mould. It can't, mould loves water, particularly feed-infused water. I was under the impression that the idea of "excluding air" was more because lacto-bacteria don't like oxygen and alcoholic yeast loves it, so it give the right bacteria an environmental advantage. But it doesn't make sense because when you make wine, you have to keep it airlocked or else the vinegar bug takes off, carbon dioxide stifles it. So that would suggest that aerating it is the right thing to do, after all we want acidifying bacteria, not tipsy chickens.

To look at how its going I'd have to say that keeping the water to a minimum and aerating it by stirring works for me too.

I too have seen people who feed just corn or grain and think they're doing OK ... one guy who was almost never home, every week upended a 10kg bag of wheat on the ground for about 20 chickens. They were quite seasonal layers! But, they were completely free range in several acres of forest and bush so they did sort of alright as semi-wild chickens. He did keep their house and nest box lovely ... bags on end of fresh sawdust every week too, and it actually smelt nice.

Another woman was feeding them half pellets, half cooked rice. She said it was cheap food, I pointed out that it cost 50c more per kg and had lower protein than the pellets ... she said oh yes but it bulks up so much it works out cheaper. Um ... she's feeding them water?

I don't think my FF appreciated the drop in temp, I basically filled up the bucket yesterday because I figured that even if its not fully fermented for a few days its still better soaked ... well its definitely just soaked grain this morning, no smell at all really and the cat isn't interested.

Interestingly, where previously they Loved the corn and ate it first, then demanded more, not wanting to eat the wheat so much, the fermented wheat is apparently just as nice as the corn. Some of them are even eating it first, and no-one is demanding more corn before they finish the wheat anymore.

 

[tigger19687]

Ahh Good to know. I just mixed 8 cups dry to 16 cups water in a 5 gallon bucket. Then added a quart jar of already FF feed.
I will make sure to use the spatcula to scrape the sides.

 

[lazy gardener]

New zealand actually, we have aussie possum here too Lol. But its the same thing with regards no racoons. Very easy actually, no foxes, dingoes/coyotes, nothing like that ... rats is the usual predator, very occasionally (say once every 7 years) we might get a weasel.

My ferment is undergoing indoor/outdoor living shall we say ... it is in the back porch, which is a sort of semi-room missing just one end wall, in between the main house and the bathroom/laundry area. Totally sheltered, half carpeted half wooden floor out at the end, it is a point of interpretation if it is inside or not. The cat sleeps there, and that puts most animals off if the human-ness didn't already.

Oh, I'd love to see New Zealand. What do you have for snakes? My son went to Vanuatu one summer as a leader for a teen mission project. He loved it, and really enjoyed talking with and getting to know the natives. Such a laid back culture!

 

[Ebarnes-21]

Oh, I'd love to see New Zealand. What do you have for snakes? My son went to Vanuatu one summer as a leader for a teen mission project. He loved it, and really enjoyed talking with and getting to know the natives. Such a laid back culture!

No snakes! (Wow ... how would you build a pen to keep snakes out? A weasel is like a pencil on legs ... I can't imagine trying to build a fence for a pencil without legs!)

We have Harrier hawks, and I lost duck eggs to those once, but they behave pretty well most of the time.

Chickens are about as safe as they could be ... they can free range as far as they like wherever they like, nothing will ever touch them. They can sleep in a tree or on the ground if they really want (I'd rather they didn't, but often they like to go 'camping' in good weather), and they will be perfectly fine. Chicks can be a bit more hazardous ... rats are an issue for them ... but they can free range all day with their mother without serious risk, and as long as they're back in a box at night there isn't usually a problem.

Weasels when they do come can get anything up to about a month old, and during the day too, but usually only if the chicks are locked in and can be cornered. They're actually safer free ranging! I've only had trouble with 3 weasels in 18 years.

Now ducklings are in trouble ... bad trouble ... we do have a lot of eels!

 

[Leigti]

Well this morning in warm sunny NZ we have a frost. The house is at 4C, and I have crystals on top of my fence posts. I'm glad I live in Northern New Zealand ... the Ski fields down south must be lovely today. They can keep them ... this is me, just add layers of woolen hats! I took a photo to show you our winter ... and bear in mind this is as cold as it gets here. Evergreen trees, patches of sun, slightly frozen dew.
View attachment 1094640


NZ is a fairly decent sample of the planet actually, if you visit just one place it's probably the best variety sample! ... we have everything from glaciers and hot geysers through to tropical rainforests ... even the odd desert.

One of my chickens, who always lays at 2:30pm on the dot, is tucked up in the nest box at 9:00am insisting she's staying there in the warm. I said "Look, food" she said "You're mad, go back to bed, I did" ... eventually she did come out to eat but she didn't appreciate it.

I had a chance to spend five weeks in New Zeeland and Australia when I was on the Winter Park disabled ski team. I still kick myself that I did not take that trip. It is going to be 108° here a few days this coming week so I would love to have frost on the ground.

 

[EggSighted4Life]

No snakes! (Wow ... how would you build a pen to keep snakes out? A weasel is like a pencil on legs ... I can't imagine trying to build a fence for a pencil without legs!)

We have Harrier hawks, and I lost duck eggs to those once, but they behave pretty well most of the time.

Chickens are about as safe as they could be ... they can free range as far as they like wherever they like, nothing will ever touch them. They can sleep in a tree or on the ground if they really want (I'd rather they didn't, but often they like to go 'camping' in good weather), and they will be perfectly fine. Chicks can be a bit more hazardous ... rats are an issue for them ... but they can free range all day with their mother without serious risk, and as long as they're back in a box at night there isn't usually a problem.

Weasels when they do come can get anything up to about a month old, and during the day too, but usually only if the chicks are locked in and can be cornered. They're actually safer free ranging! I've only had trouble with 3 weasels in 18 years.

Now ducklings are in trouble ... bad trouble ... we do have a lot of eels!

I saw a thread where the rats actually were eating a hen alive, chewing on her neck! Until then, I didn't know rats were chicken predators. But your post confirms it even more! I've been trapping them left and right. I have an electronic trap, it works well enough. But the snap traps are superior at efficiency! I've been tossing them out for the vultures, crows and such... come to find out it might be their own comrades that are eating the bodies. On that same "rat wars" thread, they posted they had left the rat bodies in the barn and they were gone when they came back.

 

[EggSighted4Life]

OK, so with all the chat about other pets eating FF, I have decided to try a small batch for my dogs, who of course LOVE the chickens' FF!

So I added just a small scoop from my chicken feed to jump start the culture last night. But I have to say the dog food STINKS already when I just got it wet. Can't wait to see what happens, will update.

@Ebarnes-21 We combat snakes the same way we do raccoon, with 1/2 inch hardware cloth covering our coops not chicken wire which is mostly only useful for keeping chickens in, not predators out. No hat or puffer here, but ALWAYS a good cup of coffee in the morning!

 

[Molpet]

OK, so with all the chat about other pets eating FF, I have decided to try a small batch for my dogs, who of course LOVE the chickens' FF!

So I added just a small scoop from my chicken feed to jump start the culture last night. But I have to say the dog food STINKS already when I just got it wet. Can't wait to see what happens, will update.

@Ebarnes-21 We combat snakes the same way we do raccoon, with 1/2 inch hardware cloth covering our coops not chicken wire which is mostly only useful for keeping chickens in, not predators out. No hat or puffer here, but ALWAYS a good cup of coffee in the morning!

animal protein in the dog food is what stinks... fyi my dog liked his food fermented for about a week and then he refused to eat it

 

[mobius]

Wow i have been wondering about fermenting the dog food, cause mine love the chicken FF so much...and wondering also if healthier for dogs...I use Taste of the Wild...might try fermenting but let me know how it goes