FERMENTED FEEDS...anyone using them?

[Ebarnes-21]

Ah of course ... I should have known that ...

So that is mostly loss ... I don't think Ethanol counts as a nutrient for chickens, but then our fermentation is mostly bacterial not yeast so ethanol is minimal. The carbon dioxide is of course loss (not that I am mourning the death of a little sugar!).

So the overall energy is likely to be reduced in the feed, but as most grains are on the balance of things, too high energy/low protein, that is a good move.

Interesting piece in the book Nutrient Requirements of Poultry: Ninth Revised Edition, 1994.

"Only about 10 percent of the phytate phosphorus in corn and wheat is digested by poultry (Nelson, 1976)."

To judge from the figures in the first study given by molpet above, around 30% of the Phytate Bound Phosphorous is reduced by fermentation. If this is all converted to usable forms of phosphorous, that is a very significant increase in phosphorous available for the chicken.

 

[Ebarnes-21]

"In fermentation, the sugars and starches are eaten up by the bacteria cultures, and converted to lactic acid, carbon dioxide, and more bacteria."
http://www.culturesforhealth.com/learn/general/low-carb-fermented-foods/

So as well as the Co2, some of that sugar and starch is your lactic acid, and some is bacteria itself ... so what, nutritionally speaking, is the physical bulk of bacteria made of? Because all that is being eaten by the chickens too, and is probably the most nutritious part!

 

[Ebarnes-21]

Our daughter wanted to know if I ever felt bad for cooking the yeast (as I told her it was alive)!

Lol ... yeast ... can't say as I had previously thought of that ... shellfish yes ... yeast no.

Has anyone told her lettuce is alive too? (Albeit not conscious) ... but for instance take mung bean sprouts ... they're definitely alive. (Actually I do feel a little guilty cooking sprouts!) Harvest a broccoli and keep it in the fridge, it develops new compounds that plants develop under adverse conditions to protect themselves ... meaning it is alive, and in fact in distress ... so yes we're probably torturing yeast. Poor little sods ... but they taste so good!

 

[JaeG]

Lol ... yeast ... can't say as I had previously thought of that ... shellfish yes ... yeast no.

Has anyone told her lettuce is alive too? (Albeit not conscious) ... but for instance take mung bean sprouts ... they're definitely alive. (Actually I do feel a little guilty cooking sprouts!) Harvest a broccoli and keep it in the fridge, it develops new compounds that plants develop under adverse conditions to protect themselves ... meaning it is alive, and in fact in distress ... so yes we're probably torturing yeast. Poor little sods ... but they taste so good!

She did make me feel a bit guilty. But she sure enjoyed the bread. Yes, plants are amazingly aware. I have to admit I do giggle at my relatives who are vegans. Science has discovered that plants communicate via the fungal networks that are everywhere in the soil. The plants that provide the fungi with the most food get better information too! We saw that on a documentary.

 

[Ebarnes-21]

LOLOLOLOLOL here is the quote from the official Poultry Nutrition book that gives advice for commercial poultry rations.

All the way through I have been wondering that they compare basically how little nutrition they can get away with and still keep a chicken laying ... and I wonder what about the nutritional content of the egg!!?

So now I get to the beginning of the chapter on Breeding Stock ... and I read: "dietary levels of trace minerals and vitamins that result in maximum egg yield per day may be too low for the developing embryo".

Ahem ... did I just hear them say that commercial human food eggs cannot support a growing chick adequately ... ie, that they are ... dare I say it ...
Less Than Ideally Nutritious??

Hey maybe we better all keep some chickens and grow our own eggs ...

 

[lazy gardener]

Very interesting studies ...

"reduced the concentration of dietary sugar from 32.1 to 7.3 g/kg DM"

What does this dietary Sugar convert to? Does anyone know?

"and the phytate bound phosphorus from 2.7 to 1.9 g/kg DM."

So from that we can get a good idea of the increased digestibility of the minerals in the feed. Does all the "Phytate bound Phosphorous" that is converted (ie, 0.8g/kg) turn to "Non-phytate Phosphorous"?

Phosphorous is an element. One of the key facts in the study of chemistry is that elements can neither be created or destroyed. So, I would guess that the answer to your question would most likely be: yes.

By the way, since reading about potentially larger yolks in eggs from FF chickens, I've wondered, has anyone noticed any differences in chicks hatched from FF eggs?

Eg, larger, healthier, higher hatchability, or anything like that?

I can tell you that I have excellent hatches. However, in addition to providing FF, I also put my flock on a multi vit. supplement prior to collecting eggs. When they go on the supplement, I notice an almost immediate improvement in the overall structure of the eggs, including shell strength, yolk membranes stronger, and increased height and viscosity of inner albumen layer. My chicks are large and beefy. When comparing my chicks this spring to chicks from same hatch date that were shipped to me, my chicks grew much faster. Of course those shipped chicks had to overcome shipping stress.

LOLOLOLOLOL here is the quote from the official Poultry Nutrition book that gives advice for commercial poultry rations.

All the way through I have been wondering that they compare basically how little nutrition they can get away with and still keep a chicken laying ... and I wonder what about the nutritional content of the egg!!?

So now I get to the beginning of the chapter on Breeding Stock ... and I read: "dietary levels of trace minerals and vitamins that result in maximum egg yield per day may be too low for the developing embryo".

Ahem ... did I just hear them say that commercial human food eggs cannot support a growing chick adequately ... ie, that they are ... dare I say it ...
Less Than Ideally Nutritious??

Hey maybe we better all keep some chickens and grow our own eggs ...

That has been my thought process all along. While commercially blended chicken feed may be adequate to keep a laying hen alive and laying, it is in the best interests of the manufacturer to put just enough nutrition into each bag to meet the minimum standard. For my flock, good enough is not good enough.

Thus, the reason that I am raising my own poultry in the first place. Thus the reason why I am fermenting their feed, and why I allow them to free range as much as possible, and why I keep them on deep litter, and why I sprout grains in the winter, and why their run has frequent and copious additions of green material. This is also why my flock gets vitamin supplementation occasionally in the winter, before collecting hatching eggs, and why my chicks get vitamins.

My egg customers are loyal b/c they know the difference between the flavor of my chicken eggs compared to the flavor of the eggs from the family down the street who give their chickens standard feed, and keep them in a bare dirt, feces covered, impacted run.

 

[igorsMistress]

I tossed some blueberries and strawberries into the compost pile yesterday. When I went to feed this morning I found that yesterdays poops look like crushed skittles
Edit for terrible spelling

 

[igorsMistress]

SNIP
I can tell you that I have excellent hatches. However, in addition to providing FF, I also put my flock on a multi vit. supplement prior to collecting eggs. When they go on the supplement, I notice an almost immediate improvement in the overall structure of the eggs, including shell strength, yolk membranes stronger, and increased height and viscosity of inner albumen layer. My chicks are large and beefy. When comparing my chicks this spring to chicks from same hatch date that were shipped to me, my chicks grew much faster. Of course those shipped chicks had to overcome shipping stress.

SNIP

what multivitamin do you use?

As for egg taste, you're right. My eggs compared to a friends that doesn't ferment or allow free range are much better even though we feed the same brand of food.

 

[lazy gardener]

PM

 

[lazy gardener]

what multivitamin do you use?

As for egg taste, you're right. My eggs compared to a friends that doesn't ferment or allow free range are much better even though we feed the same brand of food.

I give Poultry Nutri Drench to my chicks.