FERMENTED FEEDS...anyone using them?

[EggSighted4Life]

Interesting discussion, and I've also been wondering if the added probiotics in chicken feed do any thing or if it's just a knee jerk response to the current nutritional shift towards fermentation in the American diet. Just like... the chicken feed that is advertised as being "100% vegetarian." I'm tempted to take a probiotic pill and put it in a glass of milk, beside a plain glass of milk, and see what happens.

When the doctors write orders at the VA home where my hubby used to work... some would come in and discontinue the use of probiotics.. stating that for those in NEED it was useful but for those who actually didn't need it was a wasted expense. So some doctors contend that it depends on the patient and only useful IF your gut flora is out of balance.

Thank Y'all for the great discussion!

I wonder... I don't think chicken feed is freeze dried, but possibly heat treated or is it just air dried... definitely making for more possible variables.

 

[EggSighted4Life]

It makes sense that they would need more if molting.

I kind of agree... but does the halt of egg production offset the energy need of molting?

Oh, thanks. Biology was never my strongest branch of science.


A new question; I've noticed my hens are eating their FF a lot differently now that they have all finished with their molt. Whereas they used to attack it with a ferocity that would see the trough emptied in under 30 minutes they are now taking their time, sometimes all day to finish it off. I don't mind this as I can once again use their eating habits to regulate how much feed to give them, but I was wondering do chicken's eating habits normally change after they're done molted or should I worry?

I'm not sure if it's their first molt or not, the oldest (not counting Ol' Red) are 16 months old.

Is the amount of time you've been feeding FF have any correlation? Is it possible they are just done making the switch and their needs have leveled off? Also, if seasons changing maybe they have more bugs or other stuff available now?

 

[Ebarnes-21]

Interesting discussion, and I've also been wondering if the added probiotics in chicken feed do any thing or if it's just a knee jerk response to the current nutritional shift towards fermentation in the American diet. Just like... the chicken feed that is advertised as being "100% vegetarian." I'm tempted to take a probiotic pill and put it in a glass of milk, beside a plain glass of milk, and see what happens.

You wouldn't be the first to try it! Actually a bunch of scientists tried it with 20 different brands of "Probiotic" capsules and proved all but 3 were totally dead and devoid of any probiotic effect.

Scary reading studies of supplements ... so often they prove that most supplement brands don't contain anything the label says they should ... how do you deal with that, as a normal person standing in a health products aisle?

I kind of agree... but does the halt of egg production offset the energy need of molting?

Is the amount of time you've been feeding FF have any correlation? Is it possible they are just done making the switch and their needs have leveled off? Also, if seasons changing maybe they have more bugs or other stuff available now?

Technically, the halt of egg production Partially offsets the Protein requirements of moulting. Energy requirements are a confusing variable that even the experts scratch their heads over a bit, and change depending on protein content of the diet.

If you feed your moulting hens Extremely high protein (we're talking an almost totally meat based diet here), they can still lay while moulting! However, if you don't, they stop laying, and lose a bit of weight sometimes too, because on the same diet they cannot support the extra feather growth.

So you will have much higher overall feed consumption during moult unless you boost the protein levels.

Take a light breed, where normally you would feed 14-16% layer diet, and during moult, without laying, the maintenance plus feather is wanting closer to the 16-18% you would feed a heavy breed. The heavy breed wants even more.

If you adjust those levels the total dry weight feed going in won't change from the normal, but if you keep feeding the same diet, it will go up slightly.

****
Still looking for the analysis of fermented grains ... I almost got it for wheat on a sourdough study but it is a purchase only full text. I've run into that a lot on this subject!!

In the meantime I'm reading a fascinating PDF on poultry nutrition. When I eventually find any info on the analysis of fermented feeds I'll post it!

 

[Ebarnes-21]

Oof just got back from digging chicken drains!! Its pouring here and the drain blocked sending a flood through the chicken house area overnight. Yuckk!!

 

[Molpet]

Fermented feed for laying hens: effects on egg production, egg quality, plumage condition and composition and activity of the intestinal microflora.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19373724
Abstract
1. An experiment with a total of 480 hens (Babcock) was carried out from 16 to 38 weeks of age to evaluate the suitability of wet fermented feed (feed water ratio, 1:1.2-1:1.4) for layers, taking aspects of nutrition and gastrointestinal health into consideration. The production performance, egg shell quality, plumage condition, litter dry matter (DM) content, as well as the composition and activity of the intestinal microbial flora were analysed. 2. Fermented feed was characterised by a high concentration of lactic acid (160-250 mmol/kg feed) and a moderate level of acetic acid (20-30 mmol/kg feed), high numbers of lactic acid bacteria (log 9-10 CFU/g feed) and a pH of approximately 4.5. Feed fermentation reduced the concentration of dietary sugar from 32.1 to 7.3 g/kg DM and the phytate bound phosphorus from 2.7 to 1.9 g/kg DM. 3. Fermented feed seemed to loose attractiveness for the birds quite rapidly, resulting in a more aggressive behaviour and a poorer plumage condition than in birds given dry feed. The use of fermented feed reduced the litter DM content. 4. During the experimental period, the body weight gain of hens receiving fermented feed was 80 g higher than of hens fed the dry mash. Presumably because of an extended adaptation time to the feed, the onset of lay occurred later when hens were fed on fermented feed, resulting in non-significantly reduced total egg production (75 vs. 82%). 5. There was no significant difference between groups with respect to the total egg mass production (g/d/hen, 42 and 45 for fermented feed and dry mash, respectively). Throughout the experimental period, the feed DM intake of hens fed with fermented feed was lower than that of hens receiving the dry mash (110 vs. 125 g). From week 26 to 37, fermented feed improved the feed conversion as compared with the dry mash (g feed DM/g egg mass, 2.28 vs. 2.53). 6. The use of fermented feed increased egg weight in the period from 34 to 37 weeks (61.4 vs. 60.0) and increased shell weight (g/100 g egg weight, 10.2 vs. 9.9) and shell stiffness (N/mm, 161 vs. 150) of eggs collected at 37 weeks. 7. The feeding of fermented feed increased intestinal health by acidification of the upper digestive tract, forming a natural barrier towards infection with acid sensitive pathogens, e.g. E. coli, Salmonella and Campylobacter. 8. It was concluded that fermented wet feed offers potential benefits for health and nutrition, but may become suitable for layers only after the practical problems related to this feeding form have been overcome. However, an early adaptation of the birds during the rearing period seems to be necessary.
PMID: 19373724 DOI: 10.10




Research Article

Effects of Dietary Supplementation of Wet Fermented Feed with Probiotic on the Production Performance of Akar Putra Chicken
http://scialert.net/fulltext/?doi=ajpsaj.2016.72.77

The main concept of fermenting feed with probiotic is increasing the activity of probiotic. In other words, provide appropriate circumstances to increase the numbers of bacteria involved in the probiotic. That application was practiced first time by Lokman et al. (2015) when 1 and 2 g of prepared probiotic were fermented with the daily feed of Akar Putra chicken. The authors reported that noticeable enhancement in the production parameters was obtained especially in using 2 g of probiotic. Basically, fermentation is the chemical transformation of organic substances into simpler compounds by the active enzymes, complex organic catalysts, which produced by microorganisms such as bacteria, yeasts, or molds. Although most microbial fermentations are an accomplished in liquid phase, several advantages occur for solid-state fermentations: (1) Low medium cost, (2) Low water output, (3) Low capital investment and (4) More practical when carried out in the fields (Adams et al., 2002). Moreover, fermented feed influences the bacterial ecology of the gastrointestinal tract and reduced the level of Enterobacteriaceae in different parts of the gastrointestinal tract in pigs (Van Winsen et al., 2001) and broiler chicks (Heres et al., 2003). In same regard, fermented feed causes a reduction of pathogenic bacteria, including Salmonella and Campylobacter in the digestive tract, most particularly in the crop and gizzard. Because the crop often ruptures during slaughter, the decrease level of pathogens in this area, in particular, makes contamination of meatless likely (Yamamoto et al., 2004, 2007).

 

[JaeG]

Oof just got back from digging chicken drains!! Its pouring here and the drain blocked sending a flood through the chicken house area overnight. Yuckk!!

I sympathise - it's just as bad where I am. The backyard bog is now a backyard swamp!

 

[lazy gardener]

Excellent studies. Thanks for posting them.

 

[Ebarnes-21]

Fermented feed for laying hens: effects on egg production, egg quality, plumage condition and composition and activity of the intestinal microflora.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19373724
Abstract
1. An experiment with a total of 480 hens (Babcock) was carried out from 16 to 38 weeks of age to evaluate the suitability of wet fermented feed (feed water ratio, 1:1.2-1:1.4) for layers, taking aspects of nutrition and gastrointestinal health into consideration. The production performance, egg shell quality, plumage condition, litter dry matter (DM) content, as well as the composition and activity of the intestinal microbial flora were analysed. 2. Fermented feed was characterised by a high concentration of lactic acid (160-250 mmol/kg feed) and a moderate level of acetic acid (20-30 mmol/kg feed), high numbers of lactic acid bacteria (log 9-10 CFU/g feed) and a pH of approximately 4.5. Feed fermentation reduced the concentration of dietary sugar from 32.1 to 7.3 g/kg DM and the phytate bound phosphorus from 2.7 to 1.9 g/kg DM. 3. Fermented feed seemed to loose attractiveness for the birds quite rapidly, resulting in a more aggressive behaviour and a poorer plumage condition than in birds given dry feed. The use of fermented feed reduced the litter DM content. 4. During the experimental period, the body weight gain of hens receiving fermented feed was 80 g higher than of hens fed the dry mash. Presumably because of an extended adaptation time to the feed, the onset of lay occurred later when hens were fed on fermented feed, resulting in non-significantly reduced total egg production (75 vs. 82%). 5. There was no significant difference between groups with respect to the total egg mass production (g/d/hen, 42 and 45 for fermented feed and dry mash, respectively). Throughout the experimental period, the feed DM intake of hens fed with fermented feed was lower than that of hens receiving the dry mash (110 vs. 125 g). From week 26 to 37, fermented feed improved the feed conversion as compared with the dry mash (g feed DM/g egg mass, 2.28 vs. 2.53). 6. The use of fermented feed increased egg weight in the period from 34 to 37 weeks (61.4 vs. 60.0) and increased shell weight (g/100 g egg weight, 10.2 vs. 9.9) and shell stiffness (N/mm, 161 vs. 150) of eggs collected at 37 weeks. 7. The feeding of fermented feed increased intestinal health by acidification of the upper digestive tract, forming a natural barrier towards infection with acid sensitive pathogens, e.g. E. coli, Salmonella and Campylobacter. 8. It was concluded that fermented wet feed offers potential benefits for health and nutrition, but may become suitable for layers only after the practical problems related to this feeding form have been overcome. However, an early adaptation of the birds during the rearing period seems to be necessary.
PMID: 19373724 DOI: 10.10




Research Article

Effects of Dietary Supplementation of Wet Fermented Feed with Probiotic on the Production Performance of Akar Putra Chicken
http://scialert.net/fulltext/?doi=ajpsaj.2016.72.77

The main concept of fermenting feed with probiotic is increasing the activity of probiotic. In other words, provide appropriate circumstances to increase the numbers of bacteria involved in the probiotic. That application was practiced first time by Lokman et al. (2015) when 1 and 2 g of prepared probiotic were fermented with the daily feed of Akar Putra chicken. The authors reported that noticeable enhancement in the production parameters was obtained especially in using 2 g of probiotic. Basically, fermentation is the chemical transformation of organic substances into simpler compounds by the active enzymes, complex organic catalysts, which produced by microorganisms such as bacteria, yeasts, or molds. Although most microbial fermentations are an accomplished in liquid phase, several advantages occur for solid-state fermentations: (1) Low medium cost, (2) Low water output, (3) Low capital investment and (4) More practical when carried out in the fields (Adams et al., 2002). Moreover, fermented feed influences the bacterial ecology of the gastrointestinal tract and reduced the level of Enterobacteriaceae in different parts of the gastrointestinal tract in pigs (Van Winsen et al., 2001) and broiler chicks (Heres et al., 2003). In same regard, fermented feed causes a reduction of pathogenic bacteria, including Salmonella and Campylobacter in the digestive tract, most particularly in the crop and gizzard. Because the crop often ruptures during slaughter, the decrease level of pathogens in this area, in particular, makes contamination of meatless likely (Yamamoto et al., 2004, 2007).

Very interesting studies ...

"reduced the concentration of dietary sugar from 32.1 to 7.3 g/kg DM"

What does this dietary Sugar convert to? Does anyone know?

"and the phytate bound phosphorus from 2.7 to 1.9 g/kg DM."

So from that we can get a good idea of the increased digestibility of the minerals in the feed. Does all the "Phytate bound Phosphorous" that is converted (ie, 0.8g/kg) turn to "Non-phytate Phosphorous"?

 

[Ebarnes-21]

By the way, since reading about potentially larger yolks in eggs from FF chickens, I've wondered, has anyone noticed any differences in chicks hatched from FF eggs?

Eg, larger, healthier, higher hatchability, or anything like that?

 

[JaeG]

Sugar (sucrose) gets used up in the fermentation process by the yeast and is converted to ethanol and carbon dioxide which makes the bubbles. The kids and I just found a video on YouTube to explain this as we've been baking bread (first time in forever) and I wanted to show them the science behind it. Tomato Focaccia - one bread our son will actually eat. Our daughter wanted to know if I ever felt bad for cooking the yeast (as I told her it was alive)!