fermenting feed and protein levels

[Shadrach]

I have been feeding fermented feed for years and I do not do so because of the claim that it saves money.

I do not find that to be true for me.

I'm going to try it eventually, but what I'm interested in is not having dry food scratched out and wasted. I'll probably just partly ferment, or as I believe you guys call it make a mash the day before.

 

[Kiki]

The general concept of feeding fermented feed is for better "gut" health.

My hens do not produce more eggs because I feed FF.
Their egg size is not bigger either, although the weight of the eggs may be slightly increased.

I have zero feed waste.

If you feed 3 cups of dry feed per day normally you may end up feeding out 2.5 cups of wet/fermented feed a day. The savings are not drastic. Definitely not cut in half.

 

[EggSighted4Life]

So you didn't notice any change in egg production, either? More eggs or larger eggs?

Nope!

All hens produce larger eggs as they are growing into their mature size. No increased production... genetics will limit this in my opinion. Does it take 25 hours (or how ever long) to make a single egg? People who say their birds lay "sooner" have been breeding and selecting for that trait. And honestly... contrary to popular belief, I think confined birds MIGHT actually lay more than free range.

Wet poo can be effected by your weather... that's how all their urates come out...

Any chicks not raised with a hen... basically refused to eat this even if it was all that was offered from day... I never have that issue with dry.

But... I do enjoy experimenting... and stirring a FLUFFY batch of FF can be kinda fun.

I did see a change in smell in my brooder chick poo initially... but eventually it ALL smells like poo. The more people I told my birds didn't have diarrhea... they said neither do theirs... and still now neither do mine.

But hey... if you buy in... you can get 30% more birds with your expected saving!

One of those articles indicate you can get increased digestibility JUST by wetting the feed.

This link is also on pigs... and suggest there is benefit... but there is a point of limited return... meaning at least in this article... 10% had the most benefit over 15% (soy bean meal)..
https://microbialcellfactories.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s12934-017-0809-3

I still think the benefit comes *most* to those who actually NEED the extra probiotic support... which I ALWAYS support with probiotics if needed before considering anti biotics.

This has been a great discussion for me to consider my choice and thoughts on the subject.

I haven't reviewed this one yet... but it looks to be informative... AND about broilers!

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5003989/

Still digesting!

ETA: regarding getting through molt... I just feed a higher protein diet... it works VERY well.

 

[Shadrach]

Nope!

All hens produce larger eggs as they are growing into their mature size. No increased production... genetics will limit this in my opinion. Does it take 25 hours (or how ever long) to make a single egg? People who say their birds lay "sooner" have been breeding and selecting for that trait. And honestly... contrary to popular belief, I think confined birds MIGHT actually lay more than free range.

Wet poo can be effected by your weather... that's how all their urates come out...

Any chicks not raised with a hen... basically refused to eat this even if it was all that was offered from day... I never have that issue with dry.

But... I do enjoy experimenting... and stirring a FLUFFY batch of FF can be kinda fun.

I did see a change in smell in my brooder chick poo initially... but eventually it ALL smells like poo. The more people I told my birds didn't have diarrhea... they said neither do theirs... and still now neither do mine.

But hey... if you buy in... you can get 30% more birds with your expected saving!

One of those articles indicate you can get increased digestibility JUST by wetting the feed.

This link is also on pigs... and suggest there is benefit... but there is a point of limited return... meaning at least in this article... 10% had the most benefit over 15% (soy bean meal)..
https://microbialcellfactories.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s12934-017-0809-3

I still think the benefit comes *most* to those who actually NEED the extra probiotic support... which I ALWAYS support with probiotics if needed before considering anti biotics.

This has been a great discussion for me to consider my choice and thoughts on the subject.

I haven't reviewed this one yet... but it looks to be informative... AND about broilers!

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5003989/

Still digesting!

I must admit I'm sceptical about the benifits of fully fermented feed, particularly for free range chickens. However, one doesn't know until one tries...
I can see a lot of sense in mash, for me certainly. I've already got less waste and the rats don't seem so keen on grabbing wet mouthfuls.
Less waste would be great.
I couldn't care less about egg size and doubt if I would taste the difference between those made with dry food and those with wet.
I've got five feed stations to cover every day and I have to clean up after the dry food each feed. Anything that means less time with a dustpan and brush in my hand has got to be good.

 

[GC-Raptor]

I'm going to try it eventually, but what I'm interested in is not having dry food scratched out and wasted. I'll probably just partly ferment, or as I believe you guys call it make a mash the day before.

I make a mash and feed a minute later after I mix it.
I use room temperature water or cold water on hot summer days.
I originally started to offer them wet mash last summer during a heatwave.
Feed consumption was way down and egg production dropped off.
Within three days egg production increased.
During the summer since I started to offer wet mash my two layers (30 months old tomorrow) gave me a dozen eggs a week, and still are as they have started to molt. . I feed them a 18% Non-Medicated Starter-Grower normally, but started them on medicated Start and Grow when their feed ran out, as I have 6 week old chicks, .so the hens also get it till I switch the chicks to Non-Medicated feed after 10 weeks. Chicks are shown at 5 weeks. GC
ETA; I only give wet mash as a treat once a day. They have dry feed 24/7 and eat it eagerly when we're not in a heatwave.

 

[Melky]

I must admit I'm sceptical about the benifits of fully fermented feed, particularly for free range chickens. However, one doesn't know until one tries...
I can see a lot of sense in mash, for me certainly. I've already got less waste and the rats don't seem so keen on grabbing wet mouthfuls.
Less waste would be great.
I couldn't care less about egg size and doubt if I would taste the difference between those made with dry food and those with wet.
I've got five feed stations to cover every day and I have to clean up after the dry food each feed. Anything that means less time with a dustpan and brush in my hand has got to be good.

I do not clean up dry food anymore if that helps and my hens don’t waste a drop.

 

[digbychris]

The general concept of feeding fermented feed is for better "gut" health.

My hens do not produce more eggs because I feed FF.
Their egg size is not bigger either, although the weight of the eggs may be slightly increased.

I have zero feed waste.

If you feed 3 cups of dry feed per day normally you may end up feeding out 2.5 cups of wet/fermented feed a day. The savings are not drastic. Definitely not cut in half.

I don't have feed waste, either. But the claim of buying less is exciting. Thanks for the input

 

[snow5164]

The point that I might have missed is “

what are you fermenting
“ pellets will expand and appear larger once soaked but the cracked grains in my feed will only swell a little ,

Mine do eat less feed buy the cup , and there’s no waste on the floors , poop does smell less maybe due to apple cider vinegar ?? And they can’t pick out their favourite pieces only once it’s all mushy ......

I do it because fermented feed is good for their gut and aids with easy digestion , but I always offer both ff and dry.

 

[EggSighted4Life]

I can see a lot of sense in mash, for me certainly. I've already got less waste and the rats don't seem so keen on grabbing wet mouthfuls.

Fermenting or making mash is the same amount of effort to me, try it when you are ready.

The rats quickly adjust! I collect feed every night or hang out of reach, not less then 3 feeders per pen. Rats don't seem to care very much crushed hot red pepper flakes or powder... and chickens don't have capsaicin receptors. To the rats!

I only get heavy waste if I use the wrong type of feeders. But I quickly adjust as well... going through 2-3 50# bags per week adds up quickly... even without feeding free loaders or the lawn!

 

[EggSighted4Life]

poop does smell less maybe due to apple cider vinegar ??

So are you starting your FF with acv? One of those articles indicated that it changed the ferment type and it's effect..

I actually THINK the feed companies are taking into account the undigestabilitly of certain things... and it still meets the chickens needs...

Hmm... I wonder about the effect on hatching eggs!