Fermenting Feed for Meat Birds

[thunderbolt&marjorie]

So here is an update (and questions) on my meaties.
4.5-5 weeks old at this point. (actually 5 of them are my replacement layers and a bit older)
They were started on fermented crumbles, then at 3 weeks I switched to fermented layer mash based on Beekissed's usage. Really liked dealing with that, however protein content was only 17%.
Ran out of that and wanted to purchase from a more local feed store, so went in last night and they had organic chick starter at 19%. Gal showed me a sample of it in a small see through plastic bag, and it looked like a layer mash (more whole grains just ground smaller). So I bought two bags.
Got home to find that it is more like a crumble, with some small cracked corn mixed in.

Of course I will feed it.

But I did want to raise the question of the protein content. Protein=muscle formation=more weight gain=bigger bird. But really, how critical?

My thought is I may buy something (what? Soy bean meal? how well does that ferment? Or should I go with whole roasted soybeans?) to bump protein up and go back to the 17% layer mash.

Also really hard to tell how much they are eating (I am so used to free choice 12 on/12 off that I am concerned about making sure they are getting enough to eat!


Comments and suggestions greatly appreciated!

 

[Beekissed]

I'll answer that with another question. If you and your brother are given the exact same protein in your food, will you grow at the exact rate and be the same height, weight, build? If not....why not? You were given the same protein to build muscle and encourage growth.

Same reason why you can't just feed high pro feeds and turn a layer breed rooster into a meaty bird. If it were as easy as increasing the proteins, no one would ever fool with meaty breeds.

I had this same discussion with some folks that felt that you had to give increased protein to meaties to get the excessive growth for which they are known. I would say that feeding higher protein does put on more weight but will not add to muscle development...it just puts on more weight. Weight lifters who eat excess proteins and do not correspondingly exercise/lift weights to grow muscle will just be big, heavy blobs....it will not increase their muscle mass one iota.

This is the meat we buy in the store....blob meat covered in excess fat and mushy in texture. The only exercise those birds get is dragging themselves from the feeder to the waterer, if that.

So..not too critical.

For those wanting to slow down the meaty growth cycle a little to insure better health and proper bone development in proportion to weight and muscle growth, feeding increased proteins is just not necessary. These birds are genetically designed to develop muscle in the breast and thighs, regardless of how much protein we throw down the gullet. This is why, despite what you both ate, your brother may be taller, stronger, more athletic than you...or less so...because he is genetically prone to be so.

I'm not saying that poor nutrition will turn out the same specimen as adequate nutrition, but we aren't discussing poor vs. adequate...we are discussing adequate vs. increased protein. If we slow down the growth pattern just a little, we also slow down any supposed need for increased protein intake(still not necessary). Now, if the goal is to get meaties to a certain weight in the shortest time, I'd say go ahead and lay on the proteins.

If the goal is to have healthy birds who have meaty builds, no matter if it takes a week or two longer to get there, then layer protein seems to be adequate, particularly if the birds are already supplementing that with free range proteins.

You also need to factor in that, by feeding FF, the proteins you see on that tag are likely being utilized by the bird, whereas, if fed dry a lot of that protein will be coming out the other end to land on the coop floor.

The people who feed high pro feeds without FF are likely smelling and cleaning up all their proteins as it is squirted repeatedly out the ends of their meaties. Might as well shovel money in one end and throw it away as it comes out the other.

Also, typically, the people feeding high pro are also losing birds to premature death, thus losing any money or profit they gain by pushing their bird's weight/development and finishing early. The "flip" that people describe is an end product of that kind of management.

You can tell how much they are eating by how much they clean up or how much they leave behind. If they are scraping their plates too much, give a little more. If they are leaving too much behind, then give a little less. This changes as they grow but it is a more accurate reading of just how much your birds are really eating each day than is leaving out food free choice. Pretty soon you get a pretty good idea at just how much they consume each day and how much that increased as they grew.

 

[Christie Rhae]

I have bubbles! The whole mess smells fermented for sure. Gonna give everyone a big scoop full tomorrow with their normal goodies I give them every morning. I keep dry food in a feeder but make them up a big mix of a bunch of stuff and put that down in pans. We'll see how they like it in the AM. lol

 

[Kassaundra]

I have bubbles! The whole mess smells fermented for sure. Gonna give everyone a big scoop full tomorrow with their normal goodies I give them every morning. I keep dry food in a feeder but make them up a big mix of a bunch of stuff and put that down in pans. We'll see how they like it in the AM. lol

 

[thunderbolt&marjorie]

Beekissed, thank you for the long and thoughful reply. I greatly appreciate it.

With amount to feed: I feed at 6am before I head to work and when I get home at 3:30, I am often finding everything completely empty, but, I never know how LONG it is has been empty.

Thus my concern that I am not feeding them enough.

I agree that shoveling the money off the coop floor is not the way to go!

I am going to go back to the layer mash I was using, I really liked dealing with it over the crumbles.

Again, your wisdom and time spent helping me through this is greaty appreciated!

 

[Beekissed]

YW!

Do your birds free range? If so, you could try feeding in the evenings instead. If not, then put out enough feed that you still see some residue in the feeder when you come home each evening.

This is what I do with my free rangers in the winter....in the winter I feed in the mornings so they have a good feed and have a little to pick at all day, as the forage is slim pickins in the winter months here. By evening, there shouldn't be enough left in the feeder for a meal but enough to tell you that they haven't been scraping the feeder all day in desperate attempts to eat.

In the warmer months I feed in the evenings. That way, any bird that didn't forage enough during the day will still get a bellyful before bedtime. This encourages foraging...a hungry bird is a great forager.

No worries, you'll get a feel for it as time goes along and will get to know your bird's feeding habits.

 

[JNB]

OK a couple of quick question When you guys say you have bubbles.... Do you mean when you look in you see bubbles coming up.. effervecent like in soda pop ? Or do you mean when you stir you get frothy white bubbles?.. ??

Second at what age should I start adding grains to the chicks diet. They are a little over 2 weeks old now.. I was thinking of adding scratch grains to their diet but not sure if they are old enough.

Thank You

 

[Beekissed]

You can see bubbles coming up out of the mix and when you stir. You can also see the residue of foam on the top of the mix/grain...sort of greyish-white film. You can start grains now.

 

[MonsterClucker]

Just wanted to post my bucket setup pics for reference for anyone who might need a visual. I should probably take pics of the holes in the bottom. I'll do that tonight when my bucket is empty. This mix is chick starter, layer mash, scratch and grains

 

[Beekissed]

YUM! Looks great! I can't tell from the pic but I don't see much fermentation activity going on in the water...is it just the angle of the pic, you think?